The Trump Presidency Discussion Thread (Non-Meme version)

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1301

Do you know what unemployment limits are? $430/week before tax. (Yeah, taxing unemployment seems efficient…) Good luck affording anything on that. Especially if you’re life is built around a higher income.

Health insurance is so expensive because there are many people who abuse it, they go visit the doctor for every little pain they have. Imagine if you took your car into the shop for every little squeak it made?

There are a wide range of things that effect the cost of health care. This is nowhere near the most impacting one. Especially in the USA.

Are you suggesting a single payer type healthcare? I’ve heard AMAZING things about Canada’s healthcare system. My buddy broke his leg wake boarding, it took him a couple days to finally see a doctor to get it set, by then, he started getting compartment syndrome and almost lost his leg.

Another friend of mine, his wife was pregnant, she started having very bad pains in her stomach. Went to see the doctor (after waiting a very long time), and he wrote it off as stomach cramps… I forgot what the problem was but it had to do with the child, and because the doctor misdiagnosed her, she almost died, and there was major complications with the birth.

I know you like anecdotal evidence. I had the left side of my face torn off to the cheekbone when I was 7. Was back home that night in my own bed. I had great doctors growing up and my family has great doctors now. I had a shitty doctor in Hamburg once. I guess the entire US health care system is shit then…

Do you see my point here? Not trying to snap back at you, just saying that you shouldn’t discount it due to a few stories. The Canadian system most certainly has some issues with wait times and such, but there are phenomenal doctors there, just like here.

I’ve heard NUMEROUS stories of people in Canada coming to the US for sports related surgeries. The United States has some of the best doctors and medical research companies, in the world. I really don’t want a single payer type program, fucking that all up.

Mostly due to the wait times. Certainly not disagreeing there.

This changed directions quite a bit. My knowledge on single payer isn’t established enough so I won’t pretend to know the answer, and neither should you. It’s an insanely complex system.

Let’s get back to the original topic; The real numbers simply do not support your claim that average income people should be able to afford fantastic healthcare. Life isn’t simple enough to say that people ‘just shouldn’t have kids’. I believe that accounts for a very small percentage of the problem.

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That’s a great point. I wish there was a good way to factor that in AND account for basic cost of living increase versus wage increase.

1302

So… #DACA is done.

such ambivalence.

You know you want to feel for all these young people caught up in this but you also have to respect a guy letting people hate him for good immigration policy; that is, actually enforcing the law.

Also, teasing a garbage Congress is such a wicked FU.

Polarizingly polarizing.

1303

Every time I see the non-meme thread get bumped I die a little inside.

1304

My family is not originally native to this country. Obviously only the indigenous people are. Both sides had very little money when coming to the U.S.

my ex girlfriend the immigration lawyer told me the amount of time and money required to become a citizen here now. Based on those parameters my family wouldn’t have had a chance. What happpened to helping the “poor, the hungry, the huddled masses?” Now we specifically target helpless children? This is deplorable.

1305

DACA was a gross overstep by the executive branch. If there’s support for a program like DACA let congress pass it and the executive branch sign it into law… you know, like our democracy is supposed to work. If there isn’t support for it in congress then it’s not the will of the people and shouldn’t be law simply because a vocal minority want it to be.

1306

Whether or not it was an overstep by President Obama, do you guys feel that DACA is a good thing? These are people that have no criminal records, and are in school or are working. Things that everyone says that they want to see out of immigrants.

And it surely saw support from both sides last week. There were republicans speaking out about repealing it as well. What indicates that it was a ‘vocal minority’?

1307

If the majority support it Obama could have moved it through congress instead of having to pass it via EA. if the majority support it congress can pass it now. 6 months is more than enough time to pass something the majority (at least according to MSM) support.

It won’t pass though because the majority of congress realize their constituents don’t want it to pass.

1308

I’m guessing the majority do support it but the GOP won’t break from party lines. Our opinions don’t mean shit, though so we’ll wait and see.

The program itself did seem like a good thing. I see the side of not wanting to create an incentive for illegal immigration but these people are the aftermath, not the cause.

1309

I see polls saying 75ish % support DACA. If that’s really the case it should be an easy thing for congress to pass. They’ve got 6 months so we’ll see.

I full support Trump killing the current DACA simply because it was an executive overreach. What ever congress does or doesn’t pass I’m fine with. It’s not an issue that will swing my vote one way or the other for my senator or congressman, I just don’t like Obama (or any president) setting such a sweeping immigration reform without the support of congress. When Obama built his legacy on executive actions many (including myself) said it was a house of cards that could easily be toppled by the next administration.

1310

i think this is the whole point.

I actually do not know how the US makes all their laws but it seems the situation is such that neither side can get anything done and everyone is just stalling one another for political points. If that is the case then i see Trump voluntarily taking reputational risk and then tweeting… "time for congress to actually do its job #DACA "

hopefully it works. it probably wont but it isnt Trump’s fault. It’s the fault of the system and the people in it for creating this environment where the voter’s cant even vote in their interest and get policy done.

Obviously DACA is a positive thing but as JayS said… just get immigration reform done properly and you wouldnt need all these stop gap orders.

Maybe Trump needs to cut another 500 - 1000 people in the govt so that it can get moving again?

1311

Yeah I’m definitely not blaming Trump for this. DACA was a measure taken to help these people because Congress is essentially worthless. If this ends up being the spark that gets Congress to actually make it law like they should have under Obama then I’m all for it.

1312

The optics of ending the program are worse than the executive overreach.

1313

wrong. You just cannot have a violent misdemeanor or felony CONVICTION . If I had a dollar for every DACA recipient who has been arrested for a CIMT, only to have it plead down…But, no matter the program, there will always be downfalls.

I have the utmost respect for any judicial decision, but when the decision is made to lower the charge to avoid deportation…and that offer wouldn’t be put on the table for others…

Do I agree with DACA? Hell no, due to how it was enacted. Do I hope to see a law put into place that allows school aged children a path to residency? Of course, but it needs to be done the right way.

Trust me, even if DACA never returns, you won’t be seeing A+ students getting sacked up by immigration.

1314

You used to be able to follow the oregon trail and get a nice piece of homestead land for the family free of charge. You used to be able to support a family on one income without a college education. There used to be such a labor shortage in that the country was interested in importing as many able bodied healthy people into the country as possible.

Things change…

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What better deterrent to illegal immigration than we will remove you and your children 1-15 years down the line when you are discovered? And you have to start from scratch in your old country again…

If you really want people to stop coming illegally I think it’s pretty clear at this point they wont stop unless the consequences seem severe enough to discourage it.

Remember also that Reagan gave amnesty in the 80s under the understanding that everyone who came in after that would not get the same treatment. Even that did not deter the newcomers. So what now? Give these people amnesty as well and do it again 20 years from now with the next crop of dreamers? It’s a feel good idea to keep DACA going but only perpetuates the issues.

1315

Our country was literally founded as a safe haven for immigrants. Changing the policy is contrarian enough, but to target children and deport them is inhumane.

1316

I would try not to get too upset just yet.

1 - Removing DACA doesn’t target anyone. It just removes the program that sanctions their status and grants them permission to stay. Removing the program doesn’t send ICE door to door to deport them.
2 - Trump openly stated that he WANTS congress to pass legislation to deal with the problem. Many republicans have come out against ending DACA, so it shouldn’t be too hard to pass some legislation to help the former DACA recipients.

1317

Our country was founded as a safe haven for LEGAL immigrants. You’re not a country without borders and immigration controls. Ending DACA doesn’t target anyone, it ends an executive order that was grossly outside the bounds of presidential powers. If there’s support for DACA, and it appears there is, congress can craft a bill, pass it, and the president can sign it into law.

1318

You believe too much of what you read from MSM… ICE and USBP won’t be making wide spread immigration raids at high schools. All DACA was doing, was protecting the shit bag illegal aliens who were protected by Obama’s enforcement priorities policies.

1319

These people (children or not) were in this country ILLEGALLY to begin with, which in my opinion negates any and all rights to fight efforts to avoid deportation. Many media outlets have mentioned violation of their “rights of citizenship”. They are not citizens and should be thankful for any time they were granted to be here in the first place. If their parents brought them in planning that they would be allowed too stay forever, they bear the blame as there was no guarantee they could remain. Want to be a citizen? Do it the right way, legally and you’re welcome to enjoy all the rights and privileges granted a legal citizen.

1320

So Obama makes a temporary declaration in 2012 and Trump reverses it 5 years later and why is that bad exactly? The only way Trump can act that would please you is to follow exactly in Obama’s footsteps?

If their parents broke into and started squatting in someones house would you say the kids should stay because it would be inhumane to remove them? Where does it end?

Try going into any other country, even Mexico and overstaying your visa… see how that works out for you.

America was never a safe haven for immigrants. Anybody who showed up at Ellis island with a disease or other issue was turned right back around. Anyone who snuck in and stayed before modern technology and records was lucky enough to be able to assume a new identity and get away with it without being caught. I’m sure the government would have removed them at the time if they were aware.

By the way thanks for responding to literally 0 of my points. I’ll be sure not to waste any more effort debating someone that only considers their own feelings, not the law or the history of the issue. Certainly not the fairness to others not lucky enough to be born close to America that are trying to get in legally.