I’m sorry I’m so beneath you? Neil degrasse Tyson had a great quip about ego. To paraphrase, ego is what divides us. When we realize we’re all the same species all on the same planet we work together to help each other, instead of creating excuses to protect ourselves unequally and dismiss the lives of others.
My apologies for not placating you, but I realize there are arguments that can’t be won when mindsets are so polarized. Some people care about money or themselves or whatever it is more than humanity. Im not going to go against that, it’s just a different paradigm.
The thing is, as a country, we have a great standard of living. For the most part, everyone has somewhere to live, food to eat, we have decent schools, decent healthcare, freedom, opportunity etc. If you want to keep any hint of that way of life, there has to be some limit to who we let in. We are able as a country to reach out to others in poor shape, whether its at home or abroad because of our way of life here. I’m not putting this into words well but bare with me.
Its a sad truth, we cannot be the world’s welfare providers. Sure we can do more than most, but if every person who wants to come in to the US is allowed to, our country will sink. Even if half of the people come in, are educated, hard working and honest, there will be many who are here just to ‘take advantage’ of what we will do for them. Its simply unsustainable, and I believe in the end, instead of helping some, we will end up helping none or forget to take care of the more unfortunate people that are citizens here. There has to be a balance.
I don’t think the DACA concept was horrible, but it needs to be put into law the correct way. I don’t think we need to deport kids, they didn’t sneak into the country themselves, their parents choose to do that.
Of course this raises the question of, “If you’re not helping people with immigration, why is one party so determined to push forward with it?”. All you have to do is look at the breakdown of vote totals at the last election to find your answer there. I’ll say this… If immigrants and minorities were reliable votes for Republicans you’d have Democrats lined up around the block volunteering to build that wall.
if the same spoils go to those that do not accomplish anything of value then there will be no value in accomplishment.
if the same spoils go to those that do not support the system (through tax and labour) then those that do support the system will gradually stop supporting the system and fewer still will aspire to contribute in the future.
there has to be a balance between morality and math. resources are limited and have to be treated as such.
we also need to accept a diversity of motivation. a sense of morality and what is right for everyone is not why i go to work. I work to support my family first and i cannot be made to feel shame about that.
in as much as people need to be less divisive; those that are offended by the divisiveness of others also need to accept it and not be offended by it.
as for immigration specifically; and this is more as it relates to Canada but you can extrapolate for the US as you wish. The best arguement i have heard that expanded my opinion on controlled borders in Canada is that Canada needs to go from 35,000,000 people up to 50,000,000 people and beyond as quickly and orderly as possible to achieve the kind of economic growth that would make the country a stronger international leader and less dependent on the US for economic growth and defense.
the only way we can do that is through pretty significant immigration but also integration.
i went so far as to connect with immigration services by way of a charity i am running to see if i can help with job placements for the refugees coming in to Quebec.
there is a lot of truth to the fact that if you can bring 100,000 people in and get them working and earning and buying there this COULD be a significant source of economic growth and an increasing tax base. but you definitely have to measure and discourage new people coming in solely to leach of the system.
if immigration, whether it be mexicans into the US or refugees into Canada, could be proven and communicated to be 80% growth-driving and only 20% welfare status then i would bet immigration as a whole wouldnt even be as contentious an issue as it is right now anywhere… hell, if you could manage immigration to assure growth then everyone woul dbe fighting for refugees and immigrants instead of the way it is right now.
He has not debated one single point I or anyone else has brought up.
Unless everyone agrees that Kumbaya and give peace a chance are the solutions to all our problems you wont get him on the same page with you. I for one don’t ignore reality and see humanity for what it is, not the utopia it would be if everyone was virtuous.
Many regions of the U.S. are having labor issues where immigrants used to perform jobs and Americans aren’t willing to (ie farming). Canada’s policy allows workers to stay, what is it, 8 months on 4 months off, to make money and return to their families.
My first hand experience with undocumented citizens here was pretty similar across the board. Everyone was making money (at minimum wages by our standards) to send to their families back home.
I wouldn’t say public policies that help others by any means impose guilt or shame on U.S. citizens, nor does it prevent them from putting their families first.
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Rhetoric like “dumbing down for you” will not make a person devote time to discourse with you. I have never had a person speak to me like that in person, at least without it ending in an elevated scenario, and I will not entertain it on the internet either.
Getting back to actual policy, what do you guys think of the whole government funding/hurricane funding compromise Trump and the Democrats came up with? And now it looks like he’s working on something similar for DREAMERs and immigration reform. I had no problem with the funding thing because I agreed it was something that we needed to put politics aside on and get the desperately needed hurricane funding in place. Yes, Republicans would have liked to have seen the government funding made available until past the midterms but that fight can come another day and no one one ends up looking like assholes for holding up the hurricane funding by playing political games.
It will be interesting to see what kind of compromises are made on DACA/Dreamers. Deporting these kids is a huge loser for Republicans considering every poll I’ve seen puts it between 70-80% of the country being against deporting them so as long as we can get some meaningful immigration reform in exchange for a DACA program that actually gets approved by congress I’m ok with it. One of the big problems I had with the Obama administration was their total inability to reach across the aisle. It was always, “I can get what I want in congress so I’m just going to sign an executive order instead”.
in 2012 and 2013 i processed 44 Canadian visas for US employees. then the process shut down and now i cannot get one no matter what for the visa class i require. been to 3 immigration lawyers and they all say dont even bother trying. large US competitor of mine failed their immigration audit too.
maybe i am mis-reading this article but it looks like that lawyer had a client embroiled in some kind of fraud and the article is throwing paragraphs about Trump Jr, Kushner around a bunch of nothing to conflate the two… not suprising… but this is the main story on Bloomberg at this moment:
I guess this means i should stop taking Bloomberg seriously.
Do I think they should face consequences? nah. If they were disciplined by their coaches or team owners, I’d agree with the discipline though.
Look, the 1st amendment protects you from being criminally prosecuted for your words, expressions etc. (there are exceptions though). It does not protect you from consequences, though.
NFL players have every right, on their own time, to express their opinions whether they are right or wrong… but as soon as you put on a uniform, you lose the ability to solely express your opinion. Once an NFL player puts on his uniform, he is now representing the city and the team’s fans. This goes for any type of uniform whether you work at Burger King, BestBuy, the LA police department, the US Marshals etc.
When M. Bennett kneels for the anthem, he is not representing Michael Bennett and Michael Bennett’s opinions, he is representing residents of Seattle, every fan wearing a Seahawks jersey, and all his teammates, his coaches and the owners of the team.
Put it this way, if Deputy Marshal Johnson of the US Marshals, put on his badge, and walked into public and opened expressed his favorable opinion of Donald Trump, prior to the election. Deputy Johnson would be fired from his job. I know it’s kinda apples to oranges, but i’ll leave it at, if you’re wearing a uniform, you lose your ability to represent your sole opinion, because you are creating a nexus to something that is bigger than you.
The NFL is a joke, excepting these players to be role models is too funny. That being said, the players have the right to do whatever they want. Although, if they start getting distracted from doing their job because of the protesting (look at CK) they should be prepared to face the consequences.
The players have every right to do it, and face what ever consequences come from exercising that right. The owners, who employ them as entertainers have every right to discipline them as they see fit should the buyers of the entertainment they’re providing (you know, the fans) decide they don’t agree with their protest and start show that displeasure by not attending games, not buying NFL merchandise and and not supporting advertisers.
From what I heard about the massive boos that rained down at New Era Field yesterday the protest didn’t go over well with the fans in WNY. Ultimately they’re the ones paying these players so the ownership better listen up or hope that the farthest the fans want to go is simply booing. Ratings are down and I’m sure there are mega bucks being spent to nail down exactly why. I have a feeling it’s more to do with the NFL’s joke officiating (what EXACTLY is or isn’t a CATCH) than some people taking a knee. If the research shows it’s protest related though expect to see the owner\league support disappear overnight.
That’s a good take on it. I support their decision and right to do what they’re doing but I wouldn’t agree with them having consequences for it based on the current rules of the NFL. They aren’t breaking any rules and to claim this as misconduct within the limits of their contracts is a stretch. If Goodell enacts a rule that players must stand during the national anthem and still protest, then owners would be justified in reprimanding them.
I also don’t take it as such a big sign of disrespect to the nation. They are out there and giving 100% of their attention to the anthem, (aside from the Steelers) just differently. It’s a peaceful protest in every sense. To say that they shouldn’t be allowed to do that seems un-American to me.
I certainly see what you mean about them representing something other than themselves, though. That’s an important point but I think it represents the teams/organizations, not so much the fans or cities. They were hired to play football, not stand during the anthem.
The boos were pretty heavy at the start of the anthem yesterday but I didn’t see people streaming out of the stadium in protest afterwards either. I’m sure the next home game will be packed as well.
At the home opener I didn’t see any of the Bills kneel so I think this has less to do with what CK started and more to do with what Trump said. I don’t think the purpose of this is to disrespect our country/service members but simply try to start a conversation of an issue that’s on some of the players minds. Perhaps if the president wasn’t busy hurling insults at the players and more willing to work with them we would be talking about how surprisingly well the Bills played instead of this BS.
Yeah I didn’t like that the Steelers didn’t even come out onto the field for it, but I still don’t hold it against them. Good on Villanueva for doing what he wanted to do despite the actions of everyone else on the team. There were rumors of him getting shit from members of the team for that which would be REALLY fucked up.
Honestly I think the not coming out at all is the best solution at this point. It takes away the stage for their protest and forces them to only be on the field for what they’re being paid for… to play football.