Good ol W-body. Saving GM for more than 15 years
And yet the problem with this (and what with RobY had posted) is that the perception that the domestics make crap is out there, and therefore the only way they can compete is on price.
Noone will willingly pay more for a G6 than an Accord even if the interior was spec’d much better (even near-luxury) because of the reputation that it has.
It’s only when the reputation turns for the domestics can they demand more for their products and succeed.
Oh! So the problem is with the consumer! Aha.
Edit: And, really, the Accord’s interior is already at “near luxury.”
Look at what kind of reputation hyundai had like 10 years ago. Then they started making some decently acceptable cars and look at where the sonata is now. Pretty expensive, but people are buying them.
GM is never going to gain positive rep if they keep pushing out loose stools off their assembly line. And they are STILL pricing their cars way too high. My moms 04 bravada looks nice on the outside, looks nice on the inside until you take a closer look or if you sit in it for more than 30 seconds. Then you start seeing things like how almost the entire dash was shaped with a band saw, the shifter knob can be jiggled like 10 degrees on both sides, the seats have absolutely NO side bolstering, the steering wheel is rubber, and I’ll just throw in the fact that she had to bring it to the dealer 5 or 6 times during the first 10k miles to have serviced. Yet the thing costed in the 30k area.
WTF is that all about? A customer paying 30k for a vehicle does not deserve any of that bullshit.
? Then what does a consumer deserve? Why does a consumer “deserve” something? You purchase an item knowing what it is. Understanding that it could brake, and will lose value. I don’t see how you “deserve” something.
No, most people don’t purchase a car knowing what it is. They what it is advertised as, but not what it really is. And how does a person NOT deserve a quality vehicle when spending 30 grand? I think some of you guys are just expecting to get ripped off all the time, and that’s sad. If I choose to spend MY money on a certain manufacturer, then it better damn well be how it’s advertised. It’s like going to a restaurant. If I spend my money at your establishment, my food better be as described in the menu and not suck.
And my car better fucking brake, not just the chance that it “could” brake.
My Olds rides better than all the newer cars Ive been in. Thats the case with most GM FWD cars. The yare more geared towards ride comfort than performance. Thats not to say that GM doesnt make any sort of “sport” FWD car.
The same thing can be said about foreign FWD cars as well. We all know that there are some that just destroy others in terms of handling and such ( if thats what your looking for )
The ones that you drove were probably just the base models. There are different handling options to every car. If you took the G6 3900/6spd with the sport handling package, Im sure you would think different. It just depends on the car and the options that it came with. Im your obviously not going to take a Kia against a WRX I mean cmon.
:lol: not many people will get this
The problem with the G6 (and the previous Grand Am and Alero) isn’t that it can’t be quick, it’s that it doesn’t feel well doing it. Hopefully with the updated Epsilon chassis they can fix this. The Aura I drove was very good. Much better than the Malibu and 9-3, an improvement over the G6.
The G6 is a very heavy car too. It’s difficult to make a 3600lbs FWD car feel sporty. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next Accord tipped the scales at around 3500lbs either.
Not really comparing base models to sports cars or even sporty cars. Im comparing base models to models of the same price bracket. The accord and camry dosent need a sports suspension to give the driver ample feedback. It dosent need to be marshmellowy soft to have a good ride. The chasis is just designed better.
To add to the fire. The BASE accord and camry actually ride BETTER with less oscillation, more controlled movements, and better high and low speed dampening. It feels like im driving down the highway not oscilating over it. Yet it manages to feel MUCH more nimble and responsive. It feels 1000 lbs lighter even if its not.
The 3900 is a strong engine. I managed to get one in the Impala I drove. It was one of the things that impressed me. Unfortunatley its mated to a 4 speed hydramatic tranny, a tranny that has orgins back in the 80’s. This is while the competition is offering 5,6, and 7 speed autos. Unfortunately the engine does not make the car the car makes the car.
There is no excuse for GM to use a W-Body chasis designed in the 80’s for a 2007 chevy impala. The car feels like Im riding on a softened turd. The G6 was slightly better but it felt heavy and unresponsive. To draw comparisons It felt like a softened turd that sombody added some Immodium to. No matter how big of tires you add or how much you increase the springrate its still going to be a turd. It feels like your driving a minibus.
There is NO driver feedback. The interior sucks, the seats suck and the dashboard looks like they took an 80’s layout and added modern materials to it.
On top of that the MSRP is priced against cars that offer better features, a better interior, better handling and a better ride, and an overall more refined feel.
Its also funny that KIA was mentioned. Because I actually rented a Kia Spectra when I was in Texas and eventhough it was slow as shit and the interior looked like the interior of a matchbox car. This budget automoblile actually was MUCH more responsive, was MUCH more nimble, and had more supportive seats than the Impala and the Lacrosse that I drove. All for HALF the price, riding on tires only slightly bigger than the ones on my bicycle.
If Gm insists on rolling a mediocre product they should expect mediocre sales results and mediocre profit margins. The american public may be patriotic but they arent stupid.
GM needs to stop letting thier accountants design thier cars and let thier engineers design thier cars. Build a good product and you wont have to give millions of dollars in rebates and incentives and sell your cars at 3/4 rate to rental car companies.
the problem boils down to the fack that they are run by americans.
for the most part americans are lazy and self serving. (like me)
american cars today are better than ever. it has taken far too long
for the big 3 to get off their ass and try to meet market desires.
now they are stuck with far too much red tape.
My rental experiences have been similar. Domestic rental-trim-level sedan = anemic. However, I also seem to alway get lucky and get upgraded for free to an SUV or a truck, which the domestic companies are still doing right.
You can type in any odd preferences you have for rental cars in Expedia Corporate. I have “Not Hyundai” Maybe their quality has gone up but I’d still rather walk. I’ve rented a few. 5 minutes in the firm yet not supportive seats give me a back ache. The windshield spray nozzles couldn’t push past the slightest amount of icey buildup. I had to pull over and get a dental pick out of my tool bag to clear out every last bit of ice before it would work. I couldn’t figure out how to disable their transmission’s hunt-and-peck shift program.
Hyundai’s are the kind of car that you wouldn’t mind owning but you wouldn’t want to drive.
Haha the best rental I ever had was when they were out of our category so we got upgraded for free to an Infiniti FX35! :tup:
In my experience renting cars, many car companies buy specially stripped cars that you can not get at a dealer.
For example, when I was in phoenix, we were assigned a new dodge neon “fleet” edition. The manual inside the car even said fleet on it.
This thing had no option but air conditioning, not even cruise control.
Same deal with the taurus last year, you couldn’t buy a taurus at the dealer, but the rental car companies bought them all up.
The nicest rental car I’ve ever had was a free upgrade, when enterprise gave me a 06 dakota 4x4 club cab instead of the marshmallow that geico provided.
i loled.
but yes, you most definitely DO deserve something when you are a paying customer of a business. without customers, they dont have a business.
how many people on here even have a car that was brand new off the lot and $30k+ (and live by themselves or own a house)? thats a ton of money to spend on something when you are paying a full load of ‘adult’ expenses. being brand new it better be of good quality and not inconvenience me repeatedly by having to leave work to take the pos back to the dealer every other week.
If you don’t think perception plays any part in this issue, take a look at kbb.com and check out the resale value on equall equiped Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix. They were built in the same plant and yet the Toyota demands a higher resale value. How can the same car be worth less because of a badge? Public perception. People not willing to consider the possibility GM is trying to make a change in their reputation. Take it back a few years…
Geo Prizm = cheap car
Toyota Corrolla = economy car
again, same car
Don’t drive a rental car and wonder why is doesn’t handle like a sports car. Don’t drive a family car, and wonder why it won’t win at Le Mans.
Why are the seats designed for fat asses, thats what Americans are. If you are 300lbs, side bolsters are a pain in the back. Believe it or not, SOME (not all) of the things that annoy you are intentional, to suit the masses not individuals.
While I do agree that the name tag makes a diffrence. It dosent help that GM puts what seems like no thought into thier bread and butter cars.
Im not expecting it to be a sports car. Im expecting it to handle somewhere in the realm of a BASE model honda accord or toyota camry. The end result was that GM excreted a brown mass that felt worse than a POS kia spectra.
Shit my friend just got a BASE model honda civic and the interior didnt look look like it came from a 1988 chevy caprice, it was 100x more responsive, and it actually had real seats.
To me it seems that toyota and honda seems to suit the masses a bit better given thier non-fleet sales figures that absolutely mitigate what GM has produced. With profit margins that absolutely destroy what GM makes per car. Even with thier back ache side bolsters, modern interiors, and responsive chasis that the masses seem to dislike so much.
I’d argue thought that the average driver of these sedans couldn’t tell you what a “responsive chassis” is. Most of these cars will never come close to their engineering limits - much like most SUV’s will never be taken off-road. As such - I’d bet ride comfort would take a much higher priority for the average buyer than “laser-like handling”.
And I say that because even Car and Driver, something of an anti-GM fanboy magazine, even called the Civic Si “sloppy” around VIR vs. a Cobalt SS/SC.
The thing is that you dont have to drive any of these cars at anywhere near the limit to tell the diffrence. The best way to describe it is that An impala feels at least 1000 lbs heavier than an accord or camry. It feels heavy and floaty.
Shit my 5 foot tall mom and my 5 foot 1 sister can tell that an accord “drives better” than a pontiac G6. In short they feel more secure and more in control.