seriously… they really do, their bread and butter, the motorsport line, is so shitty that BMW will no longer offer a CPO/Extended maintenance for the new ones…
Nah, BMW’s main issue right now is the US, most of their sales for a decent mark-up comes up from US sales.
I have been here 2 years and come home about once a month to Buffalo.
It is more like I am going to school here than living here.
I don’t have a house or anything tieing me here.
Plus, I have an MBA with great experience so I have plently of other options I am looking at outside Detroit.
So I would disagree that I am skewed because of living here, but you might know me better than I do.
Also, did you read the article and only decide to try to negative my single point that wasn’t included in the article. Or decide that those facts were to difficult to deal with.
He is just a moron, look at some of his other posts and you can figure that out for yourself.
Didn’t know that Detroit was new to you 
My bad. I wasn’t making fun of you for living there either, sorry if I came off that way.
No, I didn’t read the article. Now that I’m looking at it, ONE LINE in the entire page of writing (which primarily blames the executives, union and government) mentions Japan somehow, mysteriously, keeping the yen undervalued to gain an upper hand in selling their cars cheaply. Sure, I’ll believe a vague statement provided without ANY proof.
Even if it were true, could you agree that the effect of an undervalued yen would be miniscule compared to the effects of the corrupt execs/workers, union and government?
The American auto industry has never really looked ahead. Muscle car era, early 70s: to meet mpg standards set by the govt. because of the ‘oil crisis’, everyone just detuned and desized the engines, resulting in HORRIBLE mileage, poor power, and a crappy market. Imports seem to look quite far ahead in the future, which is why they are doing so good.
If GM wanted to blow me away with great cars that would sell, they wouldn’t have trashed the EV1.
Yes, I made fun of your M3 in a previous thread and said your license plate was stupid. Get the cucumber out of your butt and get over it, it was a while ago.
Care to argue my post or just throw immature insults around? Eh, I could answer that myself.
No, you constantly get proved the moron on that you truly are, yet you have not learned to shut the fuck up, you are no different than Jeg or Just Karter. You drive a shit box econo car from the 80’s, and try to poke fun at other peoples cars. Please GTFO… but nice try. Again I have stated, look back through any of your posts, it proves the moron you are… because Camaro’s and Mustangs do not race in a sactioned series… sigh.
EDIT: Keep the EV1??? its was problematic and need a complete redesign, the issue was not them trashing the EV1, the problem was them trashing the complete electric vehicle research department.
I’ll give you a little insight to the EV1. The EV1 was DOA and never stood a chance of survival. The Gov’t had put forth a proposal to develop build and sell a 100% emissions free vehicle. GM took the challenge and built one. Durring development GM realized that the battery technology wasn’t there yet to support a totally electric vehicle. So, GM had then attempted to build it as a hybrid drive vehicle. The proposed driveline was to include a small turbine engine that could burn, gasoline, kerosine, E85, Diesel or vegitable oil. This hybrid vehicle would then use the turbine to power the car when it was out of batter, increasing the vehicles effective range and charging the batter when under turbine power. But the proposal called for a ZERO emmissions vehicle and even though the proposed hybrid drive system would still produce ultra low emissions it wasn’t acceptable for the project and GM was then forced to produce it as electric only, instead of a hybrid. Well as it turned out GM was right after all. The range limitations of being propeled by electric motors only with primitave battery technology made it impractical and it died on the vine.
There is so much prejeduce and ignorance in this thread it sickens me. You people think you have it all figured out, but you really have no clue. Pick up a fucking book or watch a 30 monute news program and maybe you’ll learn something. Education is pricelss.
My Yen point had nothing to do with the article really just something I remember my finance teacher mentioning.
That is why I said here is an article “with some other points”
I have no issue with you, I just get defensive easily.
You are obviously VERY new to the car scene :lol:
I’ve already discussed the sanctioned series racing of older muscle cars and the skyline series. You didn’t know the very first thing about skylines and their racing heritage, and didn’t provide anything towards the discussion other than a couple of links (if my memory serves me right).
You are a useless troll who wanders from thread to thread, thinking his almighty beemer is gods gift to the green earth and you know more than EVERYONE :lol:
Your reasoning is also skewed. Lets see here:
You drive a shit box econo car from the 80’s, and try to poke fun at other peoples cars.
That seems a little backwards, don’t you think? In fact, looking at your signature, I can see that you make fun of other cars just by your LICENSE PLATE. You are the very definition of a toolbag. You think you can make fun of me :lol:
You are, in fact, the worlds’ tallest midget.
I’ll leave you be, as you can’t hold a decent, mature discussion with anyone, on any forum.
I’ll agree with littledick’s post above yours where she said they shouldn’t have trashed the entire R&D scheme. The EV1 made breakthroughs and set standards that would have propelled GM ahead of Toyota’s Prius had they moped it along until the technology was available. Again, they could not see into the future, and ruined a potentially great thing for the company.
But very good read nonetheless, I didn’t know the extent of it, nor that they used Nickel Metal Hydride batteries. When were lithium ion batteries fully developed? 2004 ish? Obviously not before the EV1 program got shut down in 03…
Understood 
And no problem about the defensive thing, it was resolved and we’re on the same page now.
Wow…where did you come up with this garbage? It reminds me of George Bush trying to justify the war in Iraq. Or maybe a worker scared of losing his way of life.
And what happens if the automakers crumble after given the loan? Will the taxpayers still be repaid? Without some sort of restructuring on the automakers part a loan will only delay the inevitable.
Ford and Chrysler’s future is not tied to GM. Ford has already stated they don’t need “bailed out” and Chrysler was bought out by Cerberus and is no longer obliged to make its results public…so who knows the shape they are in. Chapter 11 is a tool to help companies restructure. If GM goes Chapter 11 they will continue making and selling cars. They will not instantly lay off hundreds of thousands of people or cut off its pensions. What it will do is allow GM to side step the bureaucracy it now faces with labor, supplier, and pension contracts and restructure them in a way that will return the company to profitability. Employees and retirees will take a pay cut…the health benefits won’t cover as much…and the suppliers will be asked to cut their prices.
The suppliers, dealers and supporting businesses will not fail. GM will still be buying parts if they go Chapter 11. They will on the other hand be forced to cut costs. If GM does close its doors, some suppliers would definatly join in its fate but the existing manufacturing base in this country would have no problem supplying parts for the other automakers.
Even though the auto industry is an important part of the manufacturing base in this country…it is not by any means the manufacturing base. Most of the manufacturing base will not be affected if GM goes under. Machine/tool and die shops are like McDonalds, you can find them just about anywhere. And they make parts for so many more things than just cars. GM could go under this minute and the manufacturing company I work for will still be the fasting growing company in WNY.
This is a legitimate concern. But I would rather my tax dollars be spent trying to absolve debt rather than adding to it. The gravy train is over. We now have foreign competition. The US economy has to balance out. No more 4000 sq ft houses…teenagers with brand new cars…flat panel tv’s in every room…gas guzzling trucks…sleds…quads…jet ski’s…boats…ect. We are going to have to learn to live within our means.
The US economy is not tied solely to GM. There is no doubt we are in a recession and GM’s misfortune could contribute to the down turn. but to say it’s the tipping point for wall street is just fear mongering. We may be in for some rough times but the economy is cyclical and will turn around at some point like it always does.
I know your future at GM is scary but don’t be so selfish to think we will all be screwed if you are. Think about it from everyone elses point of view for one second. The majority of the taxpayers in this country do not enjoy as good a lifestyle as those working at GM. So to stand there with your hand out is just insulting. I don’t believe the people in this country wish for GM to fail. But until you guys are willing to restructure and return to profitability…we will not be sympathetic to your situation. And Chapter 11 may be the only thing capable of making that happen.
his license plate is a joke and i approve :tup: :lol:
My brain hurts.
Been around cars longer than you, unless you are in your 40’s, which is then even more amusing at the knowledge you lack, and I have been around these boards A LOT longer than your little feeble brain has.
I’ve already discussed the sanctioned series racing of older muscle cars and the skyline series. You didn’t know the very first thing about skylines and their racing heritage, and didn’t provide anything towards the discussion other than a couple of links (if my memory serves me right).
I gave you links because your post said there was never a series dedicated to F-bodies/Mustang racing, which is completely wrong, and sadly their heritage racing pre-dates your glorious skyline, which you have never nor will ever posses or drive, but please keep trying to tread water here.
You are a useless troll who wanders from thread to thread, thinking his almighty beemer is gods gift to the green earth and you know more than EVERYONE :lol:
yes, I am a troll who has been around most people here and on the boards since 02… wow you really got me there
Your reasoning is also skewed. Lets see here:
That seems a little backwards, don’t you think? In fact, looking at your signature, I can see that you make fun of other cars just by your LICENSE PLATE. You are the very definition of a toolbag. You think you can make fun of me :lol:
Yes I can, actually, you have proved your are a waste of sperm… your mom should have swallowed before your dad ever had the chance to bust inside her. Its a shot at the group I track with down here, there are a couple AMG’s, which always struggle to keep up with the R/S4’s and the ///M cars in the group. To bad you lack the humor or even common sense to see the joke there. Hell, its a fun joke, and most AMG owners find it comical. Hell there are a quite a bit more than me with a version of this plate, there are 3 in TX alone, mine being the first… but again, please keep trying.
You are, in fact, the worlds’ tallest midget.
I’ll leave you be, as you can’t hold a decent, mature discussion with anyone, on any forum.
Actually, if you haven’t noticed, I have and do hold more mature conversations with 95% of the board, it is just fun talking down to the few morons than really have no life, and never will. In the end I would be amazed if you ever took the GTr’s dick out of your mouth, educated yourself about other things than your small little world and the majority of us would be amazed.
Also if you have ever noticed, I never praise BMW, I actually talk shit about them more than anything, even this thread… but please keep playing.
Shortt Round has spoken /thread
ps. Its bimmer, I do not nor will I ever have a BMW motorcycle… but again this really shows how much superior your knowledge is to mine
I think they (big three) should have the same labor contract agreement with what Toyota or Honda has with their workers.
I mean, it’s working with Toyota, Honda and other imports. Their workers seem to be happy enough. Why can’t US domestic manufacturers?? I just don’t understand how those (US domestic) workers who are not working can get around 95% of their salary? huh?
Granted, it’s not entirely UAW’s fault…but seems to be a big chunk of it?
Granted, it may be caused by the management…but not entirely?
But, damn, can’t they work it out?
From:
Whaaaaaat…?
Its called economics. I unlike many on here actually understand them. Don’t take my word for it.
There are a myriad of financial experts, other than myself that seem to agree with me.
The cost of inaction is exponentially higher.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a0Ee7HIsw7Ao&refer=home
Umm, it most certainly is. Its naieve, ignorant and even moronic to think it isn’t. Chapter 11 isn’t the answer. All Ch 11 is going to do is create a bridge between a viable company and ch 7. Who the hell is going to buy a car from a company in Ch 11. NO ONE. That would be the nail in the coffin. Restructure or not, if they aren’t selling cars it doesn’t matter how any restructure isn’t going to help if there isn’t any revenue.
BTW, as per the pension protection act of 2006, through chapter 11, the company would be absolved of its obligation to fund the pension of retired employees. That burden would then shift to THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. So instead of GM paying their pensions, they would be directly funded by the tax payers.
Suppliers WILL certailygo under. A friend of mine happens to own a business that is a major parts supplier to GM and is currently researching ways to hedge his financial position with the family business. His business is certainly not alone. Orders for parts for many 2010 models have already been cancled from this company and others that supply GM. The majority of suppliers provide parts for a multiple of automakers, domestic and forigen.
You have no idea of the scope, complexity and integration of the manufacturing in the country as its corelated to the auto industry.
If it were true, which its not, Would be like saying that you got to date the best looking girl in the special olympics.
But yes, your company will be suffer as well a year or so after.
What do you think is going to happen when the 1.5-2 million people that lose their jobs? You think less houses will be forclosed on? Less loans defaulted? A few of the things that will lessen are; the contributions to the Social security fund and revenue paid to FICA. While claims of unemployment, medaciad and medicare increase.
Not solely for sure, but the auto industry as a whole will topple what’s left of a fragile stock market. Its not fear mongering, its called reality. Where is the bottom then omniscient one? I have been selling off and shorting since last October. People told me we’d never see 10s then we’d never see 9s or 8. Well guess what. Selling off in the high 12s wasn’t fear mongoring. Its call preperation. Mark my words, if the auto industry fails you will see a dow in the 5s or even 4s. Sure it will turn around… in 5 or 8 or 10 years. This isn’t a 6 or 12 month cycle, this is a big ass deal. Its very possible we could be staring a Depression in the face.
Obviously you didn’t read my whole post or you would have noticed that I mentioned that I no longer work as a consultant to the auto industry. I work in economics and finance and deal with these issues on a daily basis. Do not adress this as MY problem. I am not looking for shit. I am merely trying to educate you as to the scope of this issue and make you idiots realize that this is an issue that will affect everyone in this country, in one way, shape or form.
Wow, you joined in 06. I’m so impressed that your 40 years old and don’t know the first thing about Toyota Supras let alone numerous other topics I’ve argued with you about. Good job living under a rock.
I gave you links because your post said there was never a series dedicated to F-bodies/Mustang racing, which is completely wrong, and sadly their heritage racing pre-dates your glorious skyline, which you have never nor will ever posses or drive, but please keep trying to tread water here.
Just because it pre-dates it, doesn’t mean that any one car dominated the series completely like the skyline did. When the skyline came in, series were broken up, rules were changed, and other circuits were created because of it. Nothing like that ever happened because of a Mustang (no offense to Mustang owners, trying to prove a point).
yes, I am a troll who has been around most people here and on the boards since 02… wow you really got me there
Join date says 06. English > you. Unless this is another account, in which case memory > you because you forgot your own password.
Yes I can, actually, you have proved your are a waste of sperm… your mom should have swallowed before your dad ever had the chance to bust inside her. Its a shot at the group I track with down here, there are a couple AMG’s, which always struggle to keep up with the R/S4’s and the ///M cars in the group. To bad you lack the humor or even common sense to see the joke there. Hell, its a fun joke, and most AMG owners find it comical. Hell there are a quite a bit more than me with a version of this plate, there are 3 in TX alone, mine being the first… but again, please keep trying.
I agree it’s funny, but what’s even funnier is you trying to bomb on me for making fun of cars when you do it yourself.
I’m so glad you and your butt-buddies have matching license plates. You guysss are soooooo cooooollll 
Actually, if you haven’t noticed, I have and do hold more mature conversations with 95% of the board, it is just fun talking down to the few morons than really have no life, and never will. In the end I would be amazed if you ever took the GTr’s dick out of your mouth, educated yourself about other things than your small little world and the majority of us would be amazed.
No I didn’t notice this, because you don’t. That’s why I said you don’t. You can’t even accept the fact that the skyline had a successful racing heritage, because I have the ‘GTr’s dick in my mouth’. I already conceded that f-bodies did great in their own little circuit, because they did. You can’t admit that the skyline had one too? That just shows how stubborn you are…refusal to accept something as fact, when it can be proven overwhelmingly.
Also if you have ever noticed, I never praise BMW, I actually talk shit about them more than anything, even this thread… but please keep playing.
I don’t care?
Shortt Round has spoken /thread
I thought it was funny too, but wasn’t the point I was making 
ps. Its bimmer, I do not nor will I ever have a BMW motorcycle… but again this really shows how much superior your knowledge is to mine
I seriously do not even care enough to make the distinction between beemer and bimmer. I don’t.
Obviously you know more than me, because you know TONS of euro-lingo but can’t recognize a grand-touring car that was exceptional for its day.
An immature old man, stuck in his ways…funny stuff I tell ya.
edit: Actually, wait a minute. You came into this thread and flamebaited me, and I took it :lol: Well done, well done…now answer me this, old man: am I wrong in saying that compared to the greedy execs/workers, union laws and govt. influence, the supposed undervaluing of the yen is VERY small? Am I wrong in saying that it is almost entirely the big 3’s/UAW/governments fault? The link that BigRon was talking about blames those three groups for the ENTIRE problem, because IT IS THEIR FAULT. They contributed to this problem the most.
If you’d like to be an asinine old man and argue with me about something pertaining to another topic, please PM me and I’d love to cram proper grammar down your throat that you should have learned centuries ago in kindergarten. Otherwise, prove me wrong, oh wise one :lol:
how about you two just kiss?
Ya know, he’s probably a perfectly nice guy in person…but god dammit I want him to admit hes wrong, and stop going on off topic tangents pertaining to stupid things. Is that REALLY so hard to wish for?
Are you in high school? You REALLY want him to admit he is wrong over a mostly subjective OPINION discussion. Cant you just be an adult and realize that these type of conversations about never have a WINNER and a LOSER!!!
Please quote to me where he actually discussed the original topic.
Oh wait, I’ll do it for you.
That’s pretty much agreeing with what I said.
Now I ask you cougar: why is he arguing with me, if we AGREE ON THE ORIGINAL TOPIC? He’s bringing bullshit into the thread that we discussed months ago, and I want him to admit he was wrong about skylines having absolutely no racing heritage, and drop the arguing with me about everything bullshit. It’s unnecessary.