Timing Belt Job Performed Twice

Shift518 Automotive
1

Sorry in advance for posting like this, but rather than rep other forums, I decided this would be the best way to make a long story short:

2007 VW GTI w/DSG transmission, stage 2 bunch-o-mods

I moved to Florida exactly a week ago. I work in Brandon, FL and commute, for the time being from Nokomis, FL which is an hour away. On my way in today I noticed a little hesitation on the highway but wasn’t certain. In other words, it was so small it could have been wind, me taking my foot off the gas a bit without noticing, etc…After getting about a mile away from work I decided to give the car a bit of gas and brought it to 60 and watched my boost gauge. Everything seemed fine. As soon as I let off the gas and started to slow down then engine started to sound effed up.

So I decided to try to limp to a dealer that was 2 miles away. I only made it one mile before the car would stall when giving it gas and not move. Fortunately, I was dead in a popular left turn only lane. This drew the attention of the local sheriffs after only one hour. They were super kind and pushed me into the grass off to the right. I called a tow truck company that took my name, location, and promptly never called me back. It started to rain which was cool because it was hot as hell in the car so I got to sit in there for a while. After about an hour I decided to run to McD’s to grab some sammiches and a Diet Coke = $10.68. Keeping with the day, the bag got wet on the way back to the car and the sammies dumped onto the road. Mmmm $10.68 in Diet Coke is FILLING. Don’t know how I would’ve fit those sandwiches in there.

Back to the car. I was able to arrange a tow truck all the way back home, an hour away. The dealer politely informed me that they wouldn’t even be able to scan it until Monday morning. I scanned it when I got home and received this bit of good news:

2

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 H HW: 8P0 907 115 B
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0030
Revision: 5BH15— Serial number: VWZ7Z0F8206233
Coding: 0403010A1C070160
Shop #: WSC 08376 444 83864
VCID: 2B7A57A48A6E9840A59

8 Faults Found:
005699 - Please check DTC Memory of Electric Load Controller
P1643 - 001 - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 123152 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 06:46:59

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1817 /min
Load: 9.8 %
Speed: 72.0 km/h
Temperature: 79.0°C
Temperature: 36.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V

000017 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 - 004 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 124831 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 14:31:38

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1919 /min
Load: 22.3 %
Speed: 62.0 km/h
Temperature: 86.0°C
Temperature: 75.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 001 - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 124831 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 14:31:40

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1537 /min
Load: 13.7 %
Speed: 61.0 km/h
Temperature: 86.0°C
Temperature: 73.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

000772 - Cylinder 4
P0304 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 124831 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 14:31:40

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1537 /min
Load: 13.7 %
Speed: 61.0 km/h
Temperature: 86.0°C
Temperature: 73.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

000769 - Cylinder 1
P0301 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 124831 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 14:34:23

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1311 /min
Load: 17.2 %
Speed: 17.0 km/h
Temperature: 90.0°C
Temperature: 73.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V

000771 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 001 - Misfire Detected
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 124832 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 15:20:43

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2109 /min
Load: 16.5 %
Speed: 27.0 km/h
Temperature: 84.0°C
Temperature: 83.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V

000808 - Knock Sensor 1 (G61)
P0328 - 001 - Signal too High
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 124832 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 15:20:49

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2098 /min
Load: 21.2 %
Speed: 27.0 km/h
Temperature: 84.0°C
Temperature: 81.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V

000819 - Knock Sensor 2 (G66)
P0333 - 001 - Signal too High
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 124832 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 15:20:49

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2098 /min
Load: 21.2 %
Speed: 27.0 km/h
Temperature: 84.0°C
Temperature: 81.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V

Readiness: 0000 0101

Possible Symptoms
Power Loss
Possible Causes
Camshaft Adjustment Valve 1 (N205) faulty
Fuel Pump Relay (J17) faulty
Mechanical Timing not correct, including Chain and/or Belt timing.
Possible Solutions
Check Camshaft Adjustment Valve 1 (N205)
Check Fuel Pump Relay (J17)
Check Mechanical Timing

3

I am currently unable to check the timing but I’ve read that it, most likely, wouldn’t read over advanced if it jumped a tooth. And besides, Albany Speed put the belt on so there’s NO WAY it would fail, right? Good lord. I can’t check the timing for two reasons, one of which is solvable, one isn’t. I don’t possess the knowledge (solvable) and I am currently living in a place where they don’t allow major car repairs. Unless there’s a way I can check the timing without tearing the thing apart.

Anyway, I was thinking that n205 valve which is the cam adjustment sensor. I was gonna try that. I’m gonna pull off the hpfp tomorrow morning to see if I can see anything. I replaced my follower 3k miles ago so it SHOULDN’T be that, but I’ll see in the AM.

So, is there an easy way to check timing?

4

I tried the relay and oddly enough, the engine is now getting fuel. It’s still running like that bag of dicks I’m supposed to eat, but it’s definitely getting fuel. Due to a lack of time, money, a second car, and stupid housing rules, I’m having it towed to a gasp dealer.

I was going to have it towed to CRC but the truck wants $3 per mile PLUS tolls there and back so I’d be looking at around $4500 just to get it there.

5

So the dealer called and said they hear horrible noise coming from the bottom of the motor. The first thing they suggested was cam follower damage to which I responded that that’s not possible since I’ve replaced every follower in the engine and they never had anything other than light scoring. He said they may have to strip the motor to the heads to find out what’s wrong. I said that in order to do that they have to remove the valve cover and look at the chain tensioner and cam chain so why don’t they just start there since they don’t have a specific idea what’s wrong. Hes insisting its worse than that but they would have to do that anyway so they’ll just start there. So me God if this is a timing issue considering where I had the belt done…

6

So the dealer stated they were unsure if they wanted to get involved in this motor bc of all the aftermarket parts and the tune. But they were doing me a big favor by only charging me an hour of labor for two hours of diagnostics. When asked what the diagnosis was Mr. KEN LEVINE VW BRAND SERVICE ADVISOR OF SUNCOAST VW IN SARASOTA FLORIDA stated they had no idea. He said I would have to talk to the service manager in the morning. I told him to push the car out into the driveway and don’t touch anything else. He tried multiple times to dodge questions and just push me to the service manager in the morning by stating that he had no further information in the middle of me asking a question. Then i asked him how he could know he doesnt have further info if i havent finished asking the question. Then he tried to hang up on me and i lost my notoriously short temper.

7

I wrote an email to VWoA just now. The dealer was kind enough to not charge me for their “diagnosis” which yielded no results and no possibilities. The most information I could get out of them was that, after two hours of diagnostic tests, there’s something wrong inside the motor. Brilliant. I’m complaining to VWoA for numerous reasons but first and foremost is that the conditions that existed prior to the tow that I made Mr. Ken Levine perfectly aware of prior to the tow, are the exact conditions that were cited to me as reasons why they weren’t going to work on the vehicle. Due to that, I believe that dealer should pay for at least one of the tow truck expenses since I never would’ve had it towed there if he gave me any indication that they wouldn’t be comfortable with it.

I had it towed to a shop called Horst’s Bavarian Automotive. They only work on VW’s, Audi’s, BMW’s, and Merc’s. The owner also had a German accent and seemed very disappointed in the VW dealer. Frankly, I don’t care if he’s faking it, the accent made me feel better. Yetti, you could’ve charged me $10 more an hour to work on the car in the beginning if you faked a German accent…just sayin’

8

I removed it from the dealer because after two hours of diagnostic work they didn’t have a shred of info to point themselves in the right direction. In addition, the insecurity of the techs in dealing with my motor for whatever reason was thoroughly conveyed to me by Mr. Levine who, he himself, has little to no knowledge of how engines operate. In addition, they stated that they would not be able to warranty ANY work that was done due to the APR flash and that created a liability issue for them that they were uncomfortable with. My choice was to either have it towed in the morning to a more qualified shop or speak with the service manager and possibly waste another day. And I believe the service manager wouldve also spent the time talking me out of letting them do any work. Lastly, which of us would feel comfortable letting techs that can’t begin to diagnose the issue work on our cars? For God’s sakes they wanted to strip the motor to the head to see what was wrong.

Now, the second shop I brought it to has called me with a diagnosis, a price, and an estimated time of completion. I can’t post the diagnosis yet bc I have something I must handle first.

9

I decided to bring the car to Horst’s Bavarian Auto Works after a tip from a tow truck driver that has lived in this area of Florida for quite some time. Within an hour of dropping the car off I received a call from the shop stating that the timing belt had skipped three teeth but the compression tests all came back positive. The shop, in writing, informed me that they “found damaged upper timing cover and bolt laying in lower timing cover causing timing belt to jump timing.”

Prior to posting this I called Daryl at Albany Speed Shop and asked him what he thought of the situation and told him that I felt that he should make the situation right. We spoke briefly this morning and I just now got off the phone with him. These are my notes from that conversation: Daryl stated that since I provided the initial parts, since I could not get the car to A.S.S. where they could have proven the bolt caused the damage, and because I did not call him first before green lighting the repair to give them the opportunity to get the car to a NAPA certified repair center there was nothing he could do.

I did not argue because I don’t believe in arguing over the phone thousands of miles away from each other. Now, if this was one of your cars, would you feel secure bringing it to Albany Speed Shop to have work done?

All I know is that I paid to have a timing belt replaced as preventative maintenance. Now, I have had to pay to have it replaced again five months later. The tech at Horst’s stated that he believed that the bolt inside the cover, which was the loose bolt that, according to Horst’s, caused the timing to skip, was probably not properly tightened.

On a positive note, my faith in VWoA was restored. Upon hearing the trouble I had with the dealer, they are sending out a $90 check to cover the second tow. That’s good business.

10

man that’s a shitty situation. Hopefully, ASS does right and helps you fix this now that it’s posted.

11

surprised ASS is even still in business.

12

wow that’s bad, I too had a situation with my timing belt job at albanyspeed which left me unhappy. They tried to fix it for me, But I most likely wont do business with them again. I hope everything works out for you

13

X2

14

Chris and et all…

As I stated on the phone I wanted to help you but cannot due to the non approved warranty process you took in repairing the car.

Im not looking to battle with anyone nor comment on other suggestive natured comments on this forum/thread.

We did that repair in April. There is a 12 / 12000 mile warranty as a Napa AutoCare Facility. Harold and I finished that job ourselves. its now been over 3000 miles and 5 months. Chris supplied his own parts

The Napa Autocare warranty is nation wide. So Chris as I mentioned the proper procedure should have been to call here once the problem occurred. We would have been able to forward you through Corporate to a Napa Autocare in Florida. Knowing the repaired was done here and communication with Napa and Albany Speed would have been able to help you with the repairs. In having another shop make the repair and then calling us for warranty creates a problem to complete as we would have wanted to.

In addition, the parts installed were not parts we sourced, they were parts you supplied. Plus the car ran perfectly for the time since the repair. You said the repairing shop claimed there was a bolt or something left inside the timing cover and make the belt jump three teeth. Is there a pic of said hardware? and in the end the shop charged you nearly double what we charged you for the same repair.

So I cannot assist with a warranty due to the process that was taken.

DC

15

I agree ! If u brought your own parts in its on u ! We don’t warranty any repair if customer supplies parts . What bolt did they find ? Cause in that assembly it could be a few bolts that came loose ! If at all . How do we know a tensioner didn’t go bad , water pump , idler etc ! Darryl if anything we t out of his way to attempt a napa warr seeing as they weren’t napa parts !

16

The shop did not charge double. They charge $990 which, if you add the parts I supplied before when you did the job, is just about the same.

There is a pic of a loose bolt and I’m working to have Horst’s email it to me because I would love to post it along with the story.

What you stated above is what I stated above. The issue is not the facts, the issue is whether or not something is right. I did not post anything emotional, slanderous, or incorrect. Your post seems to agree with mine. All I want is for this to be public knowledge so that the public can base their decisions on facts.

As far as this NAPA warranty is concerned, for the nearly two years that I frequented your shop and ran your shop name on my car I was never told of a procedure that should be followed if something were to go wrong. I was never told that if I supplied the parts the labor would not be covered under a warranty. I apologize in advance if this was supposed to be common knowledge or in some fine print somewhere.

VWoA did not have to send me a check for the second tow but they are going to. I’ve been in customer service for a long time and I can tell you that sometimes, doing something uncommon and perhaps against “written policy” that benefits the customer goes a long way. I understand that you don’t want to part with the nearly $600 that I paid A.S.S. to do the initial repair. However, I reserve the right to make my experience public and let people decide where to spend their money based on facts.

edit I also understand that people are free to disagree with my perspective.

17

The tech’s diagnosis was that the bolt backed out, if the bolt is whole and not broken I would tend to agree with him.

He’s saying the parts didn’t fail, they were installed improperly. Take that as you may.

18

Exactly as bfizzle says. Doesn’t matter where the parts were from, the liability of the part installation lies with the installer.

The biggest joke here is the NAPA warranty. They think NAPA will warranty their labor on NON NAPA PARTS?? GLWS.

We’re talking about what 4.5 or 5 hours book labor, right? Any reputable shop would eat that and tell you that they’re sorry when they hand you the check. I’ll wait for the ASS part out thread.

19

It’s because they’re a Napa Certified Repair Facility.

http://www.napaautocare.com/store.aspx?id=1172679

20

I find it comical and annoying all in the same breathe when “automotive enthusiasts” come on forums bashing repair facilities. For all the people in here trashing Darryl and his guys how many of you peform every last aspect of your professional life absolutely flawlessly? I would wager on none. Speeking in a strictly hypathetical matter if there was a mistake made at ASS that caused this issue I don’t blame Darryl at all for wanting full documetation and proof before he pays for anything.

Also on the topic of the dealer not wanting to work on the OPs non OEM vehicle. Are you serriously surprised??? If you brought shit like that into my dealer we wouldn’t even write an R.O. on it. There is too much liability and agravation involved for a dealership to bother with the incosequential amount of money for the job.

KK rant over.