Keep practicing on a quiet road somewhere. The more time you spend with the front in the air, the more comfortable it becomes. I never cared for the clutch up method. I just never got a good feel for it. And it felt abusive to the bike. Maybe give the “Bounce-up” method a try. Works great over humps and bumps in the road. Then eventually, you can do it on flat ground. I’m +3 on a Gixxer 1000. I know it’s damn easy on mine. But I could bounce my friends +3 Gixxer 600 in 2nd and 3rd pretty easily. Eventually, as you go further and further, you’ll find the B.P. Oh yeah, it’s way easier to practice on dirtbikes if you can. But I’d say the sitdown feel versus the standup on a sport bike does take some getting used to the change over.
I watched the Stunter Session videos as well and got some good tips off of them, but I still have trouble getting the front wheel up. I’m probably just not getting the RPM’s up high enough. I always practice at night or on the weekend at the Harriman campus.
The ballance point on a sport bike is up there, way past the pucker point for most riders, me included when its not my bike I am riding. Anything lower than that point and like Indy said, your just doing a power wheelie, can only go as far as the gear(s) will take you. And it has very little to do with ballance, infact its all throttle controll really. your body weight shifting doesnt do squat.
Sit downs, unless your hanging off the back of the seat, put alot more weight on the front end, making the ballance point higher (cg) for the bike lower, and making you feel like your sitting 10 feet in the air too.
Flip the rear sets out and muster up the nut to try stand ups. infact get on a quad first and get a feel for it there. Left goot on the grab bar, right over the rear brake pedal, right knee on the seat. The side to side ballance is taken out of the equation on a quad, you you can get a feel for bringing the machine up to the point and what it feels like on yoru body to ballance and ride it. Then bring it to 2 wheels and try it. most bikes you dont need to cover the rear brake in casue you feel like your about to loop, the engine will bring it down very well. BUT. that only works when your at the ballance point, controlled, and start to loop it back slowly, decel and it will bring it down without a rear brake. NOT going to cut it when your rip the clutch and launch it over backwards. Thats way too much momentum to stop, copping the throttle and engine brakeing it back down! I take that back. cover it but dont panic and jab it the moment your ass puckers. That will slam the front end down and easily cause you do go down. bring it up a few times and roll off the throttle, feel how much it will ‘brake’ the bike and drop the front wheel. then you will know what it can do without a brake… and get past the initial “ohhh shit, REAR BRAKE” instinct of jabbing it the moment something slightly goes bad (something just a decel would have solved).
if you want to commit to finding the ballance point and learning that, unless you are comfertable totalling out a bike, find another bike or someone with a stunt bike to beat on. You loop that thing out (uncaged, 12 bar, etc) even at 30mph, you will total it, guarenteed. And if you dont have pads and gear on, you are going to the ER. Wear boots too! running away from a loop out at that speed will break legs, feet, ankles if you dont tuck and roll well enough!
Supermoto’s are a ton easier, becasue the CG is higher, therefor the ballance point hangs the front tire a ton lower than a sport bike.
VS
Got a ways to go to hit it. Powering up to a ballance point is very sketchy. I mean goign from like 30 in 2nd and booting it, comes up half way around 50-60 then keeping it going to the ballance point you will be doing 80 atleast… not a good time to find out you missed backing off a bit on the throttle when you rock it past the point a bit! I wouldnt even attempt learning the ballance point “powering up to it”. 1st gear, ratty bike, clutch it up in a parking lot and feel for it.
:lol I’ve always said thank god for the internet, because it has kept my ass afloat since 08. If you knew how many places here wouldn’t hire me even when I was more than qualified:Idiots But, if I get out of this town I have a feeling my luck will change.:number1
Kazykid pretty much summed it up. clutch ups in a parking lot till you learn the balance point is the way to go & also safer than dropping to 2nd gear on the highway and jumping the RPMS to 15k than dropping the clutch.
Damn, I forgot. KK has it right. I started rocking my 3-wheeler. Then I took it to the 2-wheelers. Gets you comfortable with the B.P. position, both siting down and standing up.
I’m probably going to take shit for this. But most everyone learns wheelies on a bike doing 60-70mph, whatever. The wind drag actually holds the bike up and the throttle isn’t so jumpy at that speed. Get a feel for the B.P. and less of the pow, pow, power wheelies. Once you can balance out on the street, 40-50mph. Id then say take it to a lot. I in the worse way, wished I got that good. I always wanted to stunt in a lot, just for person satisfaction. Never got that good though. Either way, the slow speed wheelies are hard as hell. The guys that do it and make it look easy, props to them. It takes so much throttle control, etc. If you’re a newb at wheelies. You can almost bet you’ll put the bike on the ground trying to do a slow(10-20mph) clutch-up wheelie. I know it’s wrong to do it on the street, but it’s usually the only place with long enough straight-away’s for you to get the feeling. If you can find a private lot with a 1/4 mile lenght…let me know. Haha. Good luck.
also its not just dumping the clutch at high revs to get the front end up. letting the clutch out fast AND twisting it to the same RPM’s it would take to clutchdump it up the same height/speed has alot more control. Its not as violent either. The initial hit shifts the weight and the aditional throttle input makes the motor create TQ, and pull the bike up, not force it up. Kinda hard to explaine.
I allways laugh when i head BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAABABABABABABBABBABAAAA-WUHHHHAAAAAAAAAA and someone chasing a wheelie out. If you do it right and quicker/smoother… you still “clutch it up” but its not just finding the happy rpm point and letting the clutch do the work.
One twist, just befor it hits the rev you want snap it and continue with the throttle input without hesitation. Takes no more than a split sec to roll out at 3K rev/snap it to 8K and bring it up controlled. infact I found that the more you focus on nailing the exact rpm you want to snap it at, the jerkier the wheelie is. You tent to slow the actions down so much you loose the fluidity in the motion. Almost subconsiously do it and you will see it become more controlled.
Thats very true. Its becasue the tq is so much lower at those speeds / gears, it seems more controlled. +/- 20% throttle on a 600 hardly pivots the bike. Same thing in 1st on a geared bike in a lot and your on your ass!
Also a tip, for higherspeed, lower tq bikes. Sumo’s more than sports. If you can roll out in 2nd, clutch it and get it up there, but find yourself chasing the wheelie running out of revs… kick 3rd & back off the throttle all in one action juuuust as the wheelie hits the ballance point. no clutch just back it off enough to unload the gear and kick it up clutchless. Then you have alot less tq to make mistakes with too much throttle input to loop out, and you now have a longer gear to chase it a bit if you need to, then feather the rear brake at or past the BP, to slow down and get the revs lower again keeping the BP and getting to safer slower speeds.
That was the only way I could get my old KTM to come up at highway speeds screwing around when i shouldnt be. 30mph, clutch it up in 2nd, kick 3rd at the bp and just sit there and ride it out for ever. you could twist the throttle a ton and the bike didnt have enough tq VS gear ratio to do a whole lot so you have a ton of wiggle room for error. Half throttle in 3rd on that bike was around 50-55. Heck I could even go right from a light, dead stop, clutch up 1st instantly, clutchless 2nd, 3rd and never drop the tire… sit back at 50 and go for miles.
Same with the DRZ. 2nd was too slow, 3rd was too high and not enough power for me to clutch it up. had to bounce and clutch it up in 3rd, click 4th and you could go for miles.
Kyle, let me know if you go out on a saturday. I"m prefectly legal between 4-7 and i’d like to practice this myself.
i guess being legal doesn’t matter much when you doing this though.
or is it technically not wreckless driving if its done in a parking lot?
ohhh no. its still wreckless and probably tresspassing and maybe even distruction of private property (burnout marks from clutch dumps and drifting).
BUT, its like BMX and skateboarding… more than likely the cops will see you doing it there in an as controlled as possible setting, no cars or people around, slow speeds and more importantly not on the streets. They will tell you to leave if they get a complant. But legally, if they wanted you could get impounded and get a ride to the station in the back seat. just dont be a dick, say I am just having fun off the streets out of traffic and harms way for me and people around me… be the nice guy right off the bat.
like some others have said, you have to go a LOT farther back. Balance point will feel super sketchy first couple times you hit it. Just remember to always have your foot hovering the rear brake so you dont loop the thing. I prefer lower speeds and stand ups but thats me.