i mean within a logical sence of wheel design…
take a flat spoke wheel… and get a +50… no fit… get same wheel with -50… now it fit
GT
if the wheel is 10’ wide and the offset is +50 but the mounting pad is thick it will work…
that is why Falken Hanabi’s clear Z-brakes, because their mounting pad is like 2 inches thick
I see what Greg is saying… the mounting point could have a nice low offset but the spokes (let’s say they are nice and flat) could sit almost at the edge of the wheel (i.e. no lip what so ever) and you’ll clear bigger brakes…
Offset has nothing to do with it. A reverse mesh wheel with a +50 or -50 offset won’t clear big brakes. Offset governs fender and coilover clearance.
btw, the guy says…
"it has NOTHING to do with offset
it has to do with the SPOKE design "
So…yeah…
If you run a meshie with a thick mounting pad, it will clear…
If you group the mounting pad with spoke design, then yeah I guess technically spoke design technically effects clearence. But on a wheel with flush mounted spokes (regardless of offset) it’s the mounting pad that changes thickness, when the offset changes, not the spokes.
It’s all interrelated depending on wheel design. You can’t just simply break it down into a one sentence answer that explains it. It’s not that simple.
exactly…
then number of variables that can be worked into that sentence really dispoves the statment bing was trying to prove.
GT
lets keep arguing…lol
offset does not matter.
if for example you take a centre section of a multi-piece wheel with ANY spoke design and mouting pad combination that DOES NOT clear a given brake conversion…you could put this centre section in wheel shells with EVERY IMAGINABLE OFFSET configuration and it still WILL NOT clear the brakes.
the reason is because offset does not matter.
I think where some people mix it up is this:
take a Falken Hanabi, it has a flat spoke design, but the mounting pad is very thick. if you reduce the thickness of the mounting pad you will reduce the brake clearance and increase the offset.
if you reduce the thickness of the mounting pad say 20mm you will have a 17 x 9 +40 wheel (hanabi offset in 17 x 9 = +20) this will likely not clear z-brakes.
so lets say you start with a hanabi that is 17 x 9 +40 and you INCREASE the thickness of the mounting pad by 20mm… you are increasing the distance from the back of the flat spoke to the face of the mounting pad by 20mm and also REDUCING the offset by 20mm to the 17 x 9 +20 that we know clears Z-brakes.
soo… the offset did reduce, and the wheel now clears z-brakes…
BUT…
reducing the offset did not make the wheel clear the brakes, increasing the thickness of the mounting pad is what made the wheel clear the brakes but it ALSO reduced the offset.
offset is not indicative of brake clearance, however, making a wheel clear brakes by increasing the distance between the back of the spoke and the face of the mounting pad by increasing the thickness of the mouting pad (ie. adding a spacer) will ALSO reduce effective offset.
a change in offset is a by-product of making the wheel clear the big brakes.
SO…
because there are multiple ways to change effective offset, offset alone can never tell you if a wheel will clear brakes…
it does not matter what the wheel width or offset is… you can make a wheel clear brakes with almost any width and offset by changing the distance between the mounting pad and back of the spoke (which will then change the offset)
perhaps i should rephrase “offset does not matter” to “offset is not indicative of brake clearance”
bing is right 
take ANY specific wheel and change the offset however you want - the brake clearance will not be affected.
Bing,
Offset is hub face mounting position relative to wheel width. Which means that offset can be changed through using a thicker mounting pad.
Which means offset can be changed in a variety of ways.
Which means depending on what is changed, and how offset is changed, in combination with spoke design, will determine fitment.
Which is what I said in my last post.
This is awesome…
now post pics of 16x9 old school wheels that clear z brakes!
I agree.
Isn’t that what I just said?
Except rather then put a spin on it such that offset is not indicative of brake clearance, I’ll put “spoke curve is not indicative of clearence”…
Rather “a combination of spoke curve, offset, and wheel design is indicative of brake clearence”
so what your saying is that we have said the same thing in different words.
neither one of us is wrong, we are just using different points to prove the same thing.
i didnt read your post, i was repsonding to Greg.
regardless, offset is not indicative of brake clearance and therefore giving the offset of a wheel does not help one determine if it clears brakes.
It does help, if you know how offset is modified on the wheel relative to the spokes…
my 15x7 +11 hoshinos with a spacer will clear z brakes.
nothing done to the spokes… only changed the offset.
so there… offset has EVERYTHING to do with how well a wheel clears brakes.
GT
Thats right, the spokes are changing but the mounting plate thickness is.
See how changing offset does play a role? However depending on how the offset is modified can depend on one or more factors…
Not just one or the other…
Don’t make me paste the link to the thread about how we determined that offset and adding a spacer are not EXACTLY the same thing. ;]
thank you…
you changed the thickness of the hub, distancing the mounting pad from the back of the spoke, this act changed the offset.
however… if you have a 10mm spacer your effective offset is 15 x 7 +1
a 15 x 7 +1 wheel does not necessarily clear z-brakes. it depends on the caliper clearance as defined by the distance of the mounting pad to the back of the spokes.
thank you…
you changed the thickness of the hub, distancing the mounting pad from the back of the spoke, this act changed the offset.
however… if you have a 10mm spacer your effective offset is 15 x 7 +1
a 15 x 7 +1 wheel does not necessarily clear z-brakes. it depends on the caliper clearance as defined by the distance of the mounting pad to the back of the spokes.[/quote]
Exactly, if the offset was +1 without a spacer, it would not clear Z brakes. The spacer makes a bigger mounting pad, offset is a meaningless by-product. Mounting pad is linked to spoke design, so Brake clearance is 100% spoke design.
thank you…
you changed the thickness of the hub, distancing the mounting pad from the back of the spoke, this act changed the offset.
however… if you have a 10mm spacer your effective offset is 15 x 7 +1
a 15 x 7 +1 wheel does not necessarily clear z-brakes. it depends on the caliper clearance as defined by the distance of the mounting pad to the back of the spokes.[/quote]
Exactly, if the offset was +1 without a spacer, it would not clear Z brakes. The spacer makes a bigger mounting pad, offset is a meaningless by-product. Mounting pad is linked to spoke design, so Brake clearance is 100% spoke design.[/quote]
Ok so in order for your simple solution to work, you’ll just include pad thickness into spoke design?
Except a spacer modifys pad thickness, and has nothing to do with the spokes?
If offset was meaningless, then they would derive a measurement for it and label all their wheels with it? Backspacing must be useless too…
I already said the only way I would agree is if he consider pad thickness part of spoke design…
That in itself makes his statement true… But really, that pad thickness is it’s own entity…