We have a really fun course for this Sunday at SeAd. Registration is low for some reason. Come on out guys! Who’s in?
-Jon
PS, I’ll be rockin more SM action in Jose’s rsx-s. SM boys have some honor to defend this weekend 
.
ill be there despite major struggles to get the car back together and paid for 
sead?
4 hours driving on the 90 + most of the day at an autocross for 6-7 minutes of racing just isn’t in my time budget anymore.
Considering the dwindling participation at WNY events this year, have you considered trying heats? I’ve only read about it, but from the sounds there is a way to do it so you’re there only about half the time, either a morning or an afternoon. I’m not sure about others, but I know if I could spend half a Sunday autocrossing instead of the majority of a Sunday doing it I would have shown up at a lot more events this year.
Jay, are you becoming a track days snob on us???
SeAD = Seneca Army Depot
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.738692,-76.866531&spn=0.118513,0.233459&z=12&om=1
Big, fast courses, fun times. It’s about a 1.5 to 2 hour drive, depending on how fast you drive. I’ve done it in an hour, but I don’t recommend 120mph the whole way.
If you have never been out there, you have to do it at least once. It is the best site we have within a 4+ hour drive.
No, I just had a kid and can’t justify spending the better part of one of my two days off standing around for 5-7 minutes of racing. I really enjoy autocrossing, and the people, but I just don’t have the time anymore. From the looks of the participation numbers this year I don’t think I’m the only one. I’ve been pitching the heats idea for a couple years now, but it’s always run into the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mentality. Can’t say I blame anyone there. But this year event numbers are definitely down, so maybe it’s time to break out the wrenches.
As for track days vs autocross, it’s hard to argue with the higher speeds and massive seat time advantage with a track day. The problem is track days get expensive, especially when you factor in wear and tear on brakes, tires, fluids etc. An autocross is $25 ($20 for members) and you leave with most of the tire tread you came with, and little wear on your brakes/fluids.
And Jim’s right, SeAD is a blast, when the course isn’t tight and annoying. Enough WNY members have bitched about that other region’s terrible course design that I don’t think you’ll ever see WNY put together a tight course at SeAD though. If it weren’t 4 hours round trip I’d be there this weekend.
The biggest thing working against heats is that you have to start with a number of runs in mind. With the run/work setup, we can just keep cycling until we run out of time.
But how many people would rather have a set # of runs if it meant getting them in half the time?
Contrary to popular belief, track days are not racing.
you guys all set with food?
(please say yes)
[quote=“neurokinetik,post:10,topic:33235"”]
Contrary to popular belief, track days are not racing.
[/quote]
Yeah, but the majority of people who go to an autocross just enjoy pushing their cars with other gear heads. Whether it’s going a couple tenths faster than someone around an autocross course, or reeling them in at a track day and forcing them to wave you past, it’s still competition. To put it another way, 2 years ago when there was often close to 100 people at local events, how many were regulars at divisionals? What about nationals?
But I didn’t want this to turn into an autocross vs track day thing, because I really enjoy both and both have their advantages and disadvantages. It’s hard to argue that a big disadvantage for autocross is the time invested to seat time ratio. I was hoping for an honest discussion to see if going to a morning and afternoon heat system would increase participation.
By morning/afternoon, I assume that you’re talking about people only having to do half of the day, and then taking off (or arriving at noon). Some of the larger regions run that way, and it does have it’s advantages.
However, I don’t think that it would be logistically possible with only around a hundred attendees. The first question is what’s the smallest number that you need to comfortably run an event. I’m guessing that it’s around 90 people - that gives you three run groups of 30 people. You don’t want to run an event with two groups because then you don’t have any downtime.
So to have two 90 person events, you would need 180 people, unless you have a bunch of people that want to run (and work) both events. The key is to get larger, which means good sites and well run events. Both FLR and WNY are similar in the size and capability of putting on a good show. Further I think that both regions are committed to work together to give both regions the best possible shot at growing.
However, the core of a successful program are good sites. No one wants to run at the same site over and over again.
George M (AS 91)
[quote=“JayS,post:5,topic:33235"”]
4 hours driving on the 90 + most of the day at an autocross for 6-7 minutes of racing just isn’t in my time budget anymore.
Considering the dwindling participation at WNY events this year, have you considered trying heats? I’ve only read about it, but from the sounds there is a way to do it so you’re there only about half the time, either a morning or an afternoon. I’m not sure about others, but I know if I could spend half a Sunday autocrossing instead of the majority of a Sunday doing it I would have shown up at a lot more events this year.
[/quote]
Now given your senario in this case, you’d be driving 2 hours to spend 3 hours at a site, do your runs, and go home. To me, that seems like a bigger waste of time. Granted I understand you’re thinking more for a typical ECCN or NCCC event, but I still think you loose several other parts of the sport that help to make up for the limited seat time, like bullshitting with people and post event “coffee.” Of course I don’t have the same things to worry about as you, but I think the morning/afternoon run thing takes away greatly from that.
Also, I know that while back, FLR ran this way, and guess what, they don’t anymore. There may be a reason behind that. And everyone that I have ever talked to that ran that way says it sucked
As far as low turn out, when I started, 60 people was a lot for an event. Then there were a couple of years where we averaged 120+. Now we’re back on a down slope. Things go like that, shit goes up and down back and forth all the time.
I believe a couple of the reasons for this down turn are the loss of a lot of the Scooby guys that were coming out with their free SCCA memberships, and partially because of the rule in the Street classes. Probably about 80% of the nyspeeders/ubrfers that came out were in STS or SM. With the STS guys there’s not a lot of issue, but I always notice the SM guys complain about getting whooped on, or how bad they’re PAX is, and can get disuaded by that. The rules for SM basically allow for 450hp M3’s and Evo’s with 285 wide tires, and the PAX reflects that, and a new kid that shows up with a carbon fiber hood on their civic who had no idea or care about autocrossing when they did it get’s tossed into that. Getting whooped on that isn’t a lot of fun.
That’s my opinion at least. Excuses like time and money are fine, life gets in the way of fun and priorities change, but its the same thing as in anything else in life, if you really want to do it, you’ll find a way to make it work, and if you don’t you won’t, it’s not for everyone. And I’m not trying to be closed minded on the morning/afternoon thing, but I have yet to hear a good thing about it from someone who has actually run it.
PS-being too hungover is no excuse. There’s a reason i don’t talk a lot when I’m doing tech, and it’s usually because any sound is too painful due to my hangover.
unfortunately ill be in NYC for this one, but just a heads up the following week is also at Seneca (2day event)…
[quote=“CONEVADR,post:14,topic:33235"”]
However, the core of a successful program are good sites. No one wants to run at the same site over and over again.
George M (AS 91)
[/quote]
I think that is another issue. I’ve gotten the impression people are getting bored with ECCN, and I don’t really blame them. Trust me, its a lot bigger pain in the ass for me trying to come up with at least somewhat fresh course designs in that lot. We’re always on the look out for new sites. If anyone could convince them to repave the lots at Ralph Wilson and let us use them it would be greatly apreciated:)
[quote=“dp2387,post:15,topic:33235"”]
…if you really want to do it, you’ll find a way to make it work.
[/quote]
Amen.
And I’ll be there thanks to some smooth talking by Jim, else I was going to be at the BMWCCA event less than 5 minutes from my house 
So has anyone ever run an Xterra?
I’ll be out to watch and mooch a ride along or two, but my noob season is over. Hmm. Unless I think I can get away with “Bye babe. I’m going to watch the autocross. Oh, your protege is blocking me in. I’ll just take that.” :lol:
I’ll have to see if I can find a $200 dollar Honda this winter. I hear they make great auto-x cars…
[quote=“dp2387,post:17,topic:33235"”]
I think that is another issue. I’ve gotten the impression people are getting bored with ECCN, and I don’t really blame them.
[/quote]
Yeah, ECCN over and over gets old, but I’d rather run there than NCCC. The “dirt road like” lot surface at NCCC takes a lot of the fun out.
[quote=“BikerFry,post:19,topic:33235"”]
So has anyone ever run an Xterra?
[/quote]
2WD pickups yes, SUVs no because of rollover risks.
If it was allowed I would have done at least one event in the Expedition just for the hell of it.