2013 Baja SAE race vehicle build thread.

Technically being built in the 315, but I figured I would start a build thread for this year’s baja car.

Background:
Baja SAE is a student design competition run by the Society of Automotive Engineers, in which participants research, design, fabricate, test, and finally race an off road vehicle. The vehicle in question is a single-seat off road buggy, intended to potentially be a consumer product aimed at a “weekend warrior” type of off road enthusiast. It must be capable of traveling over rough terrain (rocks, logs, dirt, mud, jumps, etc), be small in size to fit through tight trails, have nimble handling, and also have loads of torque and traction (one of the events is a pulling test/mini tractor pull).

Teams are restricted to several frame design guidelines (tubing wall thickness, specs on unsupported lengths, driver clearance, etc) mainly for safety reasons, and also restricted to the use an unmodified 10hp Briggs & Stratton engine, governed to 3800rpm. Everything else is wide-open.

Events consist of Acceleration, Pull, Maneuverability, Suspension & Traction, Mud Bog, and the 4 hour Endurance Race.

Teams come from all over the country and world for this. Last year there was a team from Brazil in the pit next to us, we were across from RIT, and there were teams from India as well.

I won’t be down at the shop until tomorrow, so my pics of current progress are a bit limited, but I’ll be adding to this thread over the course of the year, up to and including when we go to Rochester for competition in May.

Here’s last year’s car:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/398828_4175486550622_419504747_n.jpg
Unfortunately to pass tech, we had to add the two short angled square tubes at the top right of the cockpit.

During the Suspension and Traction event:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/525821_4175487870655_1162473365_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/600357_4175489550697_1160829667_n.jpg

Flex test of last year’s car in the shop:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/538921_10150871487207835_1243894726_n.jpg

On to this year:

The old frame was uncomfortable for drivers over 5’4" tall. Fine for a hardcore race vehicle, but not fine for a consumer product. This year’s frame focuses on much greater cockpit space. I’ll get a pic of it when I get down to the shop on monday.

I’m heading up suspension design this year, and have the basic geometry for the front suspension worked out in solidworks (there’s a lot of stuff hidden in that drawing for legibility’s sake):
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/534596_4802593633619_675341235_n.jpg

Basics: A-arm front suspension, 11 inches of ground clearance, about a foot of suspension travel (assuming we can keep the steering from binding), roll center located about 9 inches off the ground to shrink our roll couple somewhat (past designs did not take roll centers into account). 3.5 degrees of static camber, with enough camber change over the course of the suspension stroke to stay ahead of body roll without getting too absurd if we stuff the nose of the car (a problem in the past, balloon-like ATV tires with poor sidewall stiffness + 1.5 degrees of static camber + 1 degree camber gain + 5 degrees body roll = sadness). If I remember correctly, the arms are something like 18 inches long from center of the inner pivot to the center of the heim joint on the end.

We are looking at running a stepped arm design to widen our area of max ground clearance. The arms are also longer than in past years, which will hopefully limit how much the car gets kicked around in the really rough stuff.

Rear suspension is a simple independent trailing arm design (last year pictured below, this year isn’t going to look all that different). It works, I wish it had more aspects to fiddle with (I personally want to go multilink), but the team is fairly rooted in tradition, so that’s not happening. In the past we have had problems with running out of plunge depth on our half-shafts, hopefully going to get around that this time. There are a few ideas bouncing around.

Drivetrain consists of a 10hp briggs & Stratton, centrifugal clutch to chain primary drive to harley davidson Ultima 6-speed transmission, to a chain final drive to the rear end, which is a spool with an inboard disc brake. Most teams run CVT’s of some sort or other (usually a Gaged or a CVTech), but in the past we had problems with CVT tuning and switched to sequential manual. This year we are developing a pneumatic shifting setup to do away with the heavy mechanical linkage that has pretty much always been a problem for us.

During the endurance race, we broke our rear end and lost the inner CV cup out on the course. We had a spare axle, but it was too long, so it was installed and the suspension on that side was locked with a solid bar in place of the air shock. Ride quality suffered a bit. Still, you get the idea of what the rear suspension consists of.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/577706_10151050609362835_1185408135_n.jpg

So yeah, KrazyKid level wall-o-text over. Future updates will be much shorter now that the basics are out of the way. Oh, and if anyone is wondering, it goes about 35mph. Fastest cars there can do about 40, one car supposedly is knocking on 45mph.

A good friend of mine did this when he went to RIT a couple years ago and he was one of the judges and whatnot for the national event I believe. Definitely an interesting event and what you can and cant do for builds.

The combination of high traction and low power/relatively low speeds forces some interesting design solutions, and makes the challenges of this event pretty unique. We do a few things a bit differently than most of the other teams. Hoping that this year we can get by without having some of the problems we had in the past.

Awesome. Smart dudes.

University at Buffalo sae club builds one of these each year aswell. I was gonna join that team but instead joined the diesel snowmobile team for the sae clean snowmobile competition. Cool stuff

Grabbed a couple pictures of the frame as it sits. Resizing is being a bit weird.


Motor boatin’

Yeah, the whiteboard gets entertaining sometimes. I think that was originally some note about the motor mounts for our side-project (2010 race vehicle with 360cc motorcycle engine, in theory it will do 65mph).

You can also see some of the signs that we “collect” from various events.

In other news, we are looking into running the rear end from a Polaris Outlaw 525, because its extremely compact, easy to mount, and places the inner CV cups very close together.

Still waiting on some information about our new shocks (mainly the eye-to-eye length), which is kind of holding up the design of the suspension. When I’m less sleep deprived we are going to start the new front uprights and tie rods.

Updates:

Steering geometry pretty much done. Front uprights are about done, need to add gusseting and play with a few things to get friendly, easy to build measurements. Need to decide on a some realistic tolerances to build things to and some quality control. All the design work in the world means nothing if the tabs get welded on crooked. Front lower control arms design and FEA phase is starting. New tie rods partially designed, will be finished today if I can find the models of the heim joints we are use.

In the past bump steer has been a somewhat of an issue. In the preliminary checks in solidworks, with the steering centered the tie rod length wants to change by all of .05" through the entire suspension travel. I think I can live with that.

I’m kinda stoked about this. Car should handle way better than the old cars, while having more travel and one and a half times the ground clearance.

Will have some more pics up this afternoon/tonight when I’m in the shop.

To bad your limited on the engine. A nice GSXR engine would to justice in that thing!

Digging the build man. Keep the info coming. I started designing a chassis for a 2 up GSXR1K mini rail a year back I wanted to build. Seeing that one up there makes me want to really try again. What did you guys run for CV’s and outer t-arm hubs? I found that the porsche cv’s all the sand rail guys use are strong as hell, have alot of range with binding and are 31 spline at the outter hubs… conviently the same as a Dodge Interpid front hub so they are like $30 ea instead of $110+ the mini rail guys sell.

I also looked into indipendant rear 4x4 quad suspension too, but it was too narrow for my 2 up design, but like you said is probably perfect for your design.

930 CV’s are what most buggie guys run.

check out here http://www.protodie.com/

you used to be able to put v-twins in these. they hauled ass, but too many people got hurt and they were able to jump wayyy too far (in some cases launding on other buggies). We had a couple at Buffalo University that we kept around for bombing around campus.

We actually are almost done putting one of our old competition cars back together with a CB360 engine (free) in it. Not crazy power, but still 3 and a half times as much as it was designed for. Based on the gearing, it should do about 65mph at 8000rpm (well below what the engine can actually do).

The old style rear end of the car is a solid steel shaft with a keyway milled into it, and splined inserts pressed into the ends. Driveaxles are turner cycle high angle units with a pretty large amount of plunge for some large ATV that is excaping me right now. Custom length I believe.

For this year the new car is going to run a rear end from a Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS. Possibly going to have to modify the half shafts a bit, but we will be able to stuff longer driveaxles in the rear of the car, allowing us much greater travel.

Finishing up the new uprights, parts not shown are the spindle itself, which gets pressed into the circular hole in the center, and the studs that come out of the holes in the top and bottom.:

looks like a fun project. reminds me of my old schools comp at lime rock

i would suggest better suspension and tires. but i do not know what you have planned.

i think you should have more angle on your front struts. and if you have a slight bend in the lca it will help the travel. a cantilever design might be the best but would take more time.

hope the rear end is locked too

hydro bump stops might help too

We’ll be running custom remote reservoir coilovers from Rock Krawler Suspensions to replace the air shocks we used to run. Front suspension is a dual A-arm setup with 11 inches of ground clearance, stepped LCA’s to widen our high clearance area, and 10 or 12 inches of travel. Last year’s car had the front shocks nearly vertical because someone didn’t measure things. This year they will be measured. I’m just waiting on an eye-to-eye length for the new coilovers.

We don’t run a differential. Since we have so little power to play with, nearly all the cars are 2WD, so we run a spooled rear for maximum traction.

Rear trailing arms are about the same as before, just jacked up a few inches to net around 11 inches of clearance.

Even with last year’s far from ideal suspension, the car will comfortably take curbs at 25mph.

Front tires are Maxxis Razr 2’s, and rears are ITP Mudlites on carbon graphite wheels the team bought a few years ago when we had some spare money. 23’s front and rear.

Do you guys tear the old car apart for parts? Or just add to the collection of cars each year?

We generally re use components. Stuff like frames we use for multiple years if it was good. So yeah, we tear old cars apart most of the time.

We kept the 2010 car together-ish to bring to open house and stuff like that. Stuck a bike motor in it this year.

Things like spindles, uprights, brake parts, and rear ends we only have enough to keep one car running at a time. We do have multiple sets of shocks, although we are trying to sell off some of those (on that note, anyone want some Fox Floats for a Honda 400ex?). Stuff like control arms/trailing arms are pretty much car-specific.

how much for the fox shocks? lenght?

They’re in great shape as far as I can tell, probably only used for a couple hours. We’ve got the pump for them as well, but the pressure gauge on it is messed up. 4.5 inch travel, 16 inches eye to eye. They should be model number 930-10-201. We’ve got two sets of them, and we’d like $200/shock since they’ve barely been used.

Info on this sheet (same as the one we have in the box):
http://service.foxracingshox.com/powersports/Content/Resources/pdf/FLOATAirShoxSuspnKitsATVfrnt.pdf

We’ve also got some rad flow 8 and 10 inch stroke air shocks kicking around. Great shocks, just not what we need.