Okay, so this isn’t for my '90 Si. My buddy has a '90 base Civic that we have the awesome/stupid idea we’re going to make into an AutoX/track whore out of it. Right now it’s just an all stock but very clean/solid CA car.
Neither of us know shit about what we can swap into it etc. Our idea would be to start with a good DOHC VTEC motor, LSD trans and maybe a few bolts on for now. Eventually we’re thinking we’d do a turbo (very small/fast spooling) but that’s down the road. I don’t know, maybe we don’t necessarily need/want a VTEC motor. I do know we need LSD with our goals for the car. Budget is key, but it helps we’d be splitting all costs 50/50.
So what should we even be looking into? We really like the idea of using his car as opposed to a later body style since a) we have it so its free b) its super light (base car) c) sleeper factor.
Also, brakes would be a concern too. What can get swapped on? I don’t mind some minor fab work and such, but bolt on stuff is preferred.
Am I dumb, or are there good swap options out there?
well your gonna need to either convert your harness from dual point or get an obd0 multiport harness for the engine swap. you need to get the front hubs, axles and brakes out of an si car as they are bigger. you will need to either mod your d series shifter linkage buy cutting and welding it or getting a b series one if you go b series engine. i would say best bet for you would be to get a 90-91 obd0 dohc B18a out of an integra with the wiring harness and shifter linkage and then all you’ll need is the hubs and axles, oh and get the pr4 ecu too for it. second option is spend about $1200 and get an obd0 b16 dohc vtec swap from japan or wherever. or you could find a b20 and throw on obd0 sensors and get you ecu chipped and you will get nice low end torque. you can also find a b16/b18c vtec head and put it on either the b20 or b18a/b and make a cr/vtec, ls/vtec. i know someone who will do all the work for you.
I don’t mind if I need to wire in the harness/computer from whatever car the motor/trans I swap in came from. I have a buddy that’s a wiring guru so I imgaine with some how to docs we can figure it out. Speaking of which, anybody have some good links for ho to’s, similar swapped cars etc?
Remember, I’m a retard at HonDUH. So say I find a K20, what trans do I want to find with an LSD? Does somebody make the right motor mounts, axles etc. to otherwise bolt it up? I need all the details.
Remember, I’m in CA so shipping might make it not worth getting something from back east. But what’s the details? Trans (if so LSD)? What all is included etc?
Basically, I need to know the little details. ie if you get this motor you need this trans, you need this motor mount kit, you need these axles, you need these hubs etc.
Also, are there any options for swapping up to teggy brakes or something?
Seriously, fuck your state and their surplus of non rusted civics
So I’ll try to keep this short because you asked a question that involves civics and autox and that makes my head want to explode with ideas lol. But if its gonna be autox’d more, I say stay with the SOHC. If its going to be tracked more, go with the B-series. If your going to use a K series, ignore anything I previously said.
Reasoning behind the D-series is weight. Autox is about transitions. The less weight to shift the better. People argue that the weight difference between a D-series and B-series isn’t that big, and yea when the car is sitting still thats true. But going though a slalom lets say, that extra weight is no only over the nose of the car, its multiplied. On the national level there is a growing trend where people are building cars with built D-series motors (usually supercharged). Not to say people haven’t built really fast B-series power cars. I’d love to build a turbo T25/28 powered D-series motor and go run SM. To many people are stuck on supercharging and think turbos don’t deliver the power smooth enough for autox. I think it can be done just nobody has made a serious effort yet.
If your going to be tracking more, Then definitely the B-series. Better topend, makes power a little easier, etc. For a road course the B-series will do everything you want and make more expensive cars scratch their heads as to why your keeping up with them. Since a tight turn on a road course is still wider than the widest autox turn the weight over the nose thing goes out the window. With the K20 supposedly being lighter than the B-series everyone believes that will be the next big thing. I know the fastest SM civic at nationals (powered by a B-series) is being retired in favor of a K20 powered hatch. Plus it makes power so damn easy.
So I read around some at that link (I finally book marked it, LoL). And I read Habib’s advice too.
Keep in mind I already have a D16Z6 swapped '90 Si. Maybe we should just use that car!?! Is there a LSD out for the stock '90 Cable trans? If we gutted it, pulled the sunroof (rivet in an AL panel) etc. it could be plenty light. I sort of don’t want to molest it though… it’s a pretty clean car. A few hundo less lbs, some boost, and a LSD and it could be insanity though.
88-91 Civic/CRX si is probably the most successful Autocross/RR car in Nasa and SCCA. To be honest and if you like to win, retain the stock Si engine and upgrade the suspension, if you decide to RR someday or be competitive in Autocross and become a better driver start off stock and gradually upgrade suspension. If you swap your cars engine 1 you will not be competitive in any series 2. you will probably start to cut corners because you wasted money on a swap d16a6 are plentiful and very reliable, if you want to do engine work, rebuild it and make it reliable. Reliability is key when you on track you driving a lot harder . if you blow you engine at the track ask yourself is it easier to replace a d16 or a b series?
In my experience on the track there are many people who concentrate on getting more HP and not enough time working on becoming a better driver. Good example is I use to have the same car and I was at a track event and a guy had a Viper that killed me in the straights but I had to slow down in the corners because he was a terrible driver and he was a huge pain in the neck. In my opinion a danger on the track because he came very close several times in loosing the car.
Hehe… you obviously don’t know my history. My AutoX car that I compete with is my '02 Z06. I’ve taken a local championship with it last year, and am in the hunt again this year (though I missed a few events that might bite me in the ass). I’ve done plenty of track days with it too.
I also have a '90 Si I just picked up recently mostly for a DD that already has the D16Z6 swap (and some susp work too).
The car in question in a friend’s '90 base model we’re thinking of making a dedicated track whore out of. It’d have to be just flat out dumb in one way or another. If I’m going to build a car to a class it’s going to be my '97 Z28 (hardtop, crank window, fabric seat car) to ESP. That still may happen, LoL.
The idea with this car is to kind of try the “other” side of things (ie super small/light FWD) vs. my heavy/big (for AutoX) Z06. You are correct though, if I wanted to build a '90 Civic to any class it’d be a Si built to STS specs. Maybe someday I’ll return my Si to stock motor and do that too.
But that’s not the point with this one. I guess we’d run it in SM (and get stomped to all hell by Vic Sias’s M3) for fun.
Yea if your just gonna run SM/build a track whore go with the base. The Si has the better seats and sunroof for daily driving. The base has the solid roof and overall weighs a little less. Then hack the fender lips off, go buy the new 275 15" hoosiers :bigthumb:
That’s more our thought. Plasma off the lips, mold my own fiberglass flares and a lotta tire. I helped build a nice chin spoiler for my buddy’s '68 BSPV (BSP-Vintage, not a national class either) 'vette so I’m sure I can lay some flares. 200whp, maybe 1600lbs (is that possible???), 275 Hoosiers, hopefully some teggy brakes or something, cage it (so maybe 1700lbs), get stupid.
Ok so outta curiosity I looked up the SM weight specs since they changed recently. Just for FWD, minimum weight is 1550lbs + 125lbs per liter (so if you use a 2.0 motor thats another 250lbs, so your looking at 1800lbs). So again this makes sense as to why people are building the stock SOHC motors. But figure by the time you add flares, cage it, larger wheels and brakes, etc chasing the weight will become more of a issue. Overall I think it will work out fine…that and I just wanna see someone build a civic with flares hehe.
Go on to Honda-tech there is a good source of info, In know that pretty much all suspension parts of of 90-93 integra fit nicely and 90-91 integra Engine B18a1 fit with no mods nesscary and are Obd0 so you don’t need a conversion. There are also JDM B16a’s that OBd0’s that make a easy swap
