A Look at the War and What is at Stake.

This is a good read and a eye opener.

THE WAR
>
>Please take the time to read the attached essay by Dr. Chong. It is
>without a doubt the most articulate and convincing writing I have
>read regarding the War in Iraq. If you have any doubts please open
>your mind to his essay and give a fair evaluation.
>
>I had no idea who Dr. Chong is or the source of these thoughts… so
>when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as
>they are. But then I did a “Google search” on the Doctor and found
>him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon of all things and past
>Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So he is
>real, is connected to Veterans
>affairs in California, and these are his thoughts. They are worth
>reading and thinking about!(the same Google search will direct you
>to some of his other thought-provoking writings.)
>
>Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA. A different spin on Iraq war.
>
>This WAR is for REAL! Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired
>Tuesday, July 12, 2005.
>
>
>
>To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our
>country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as
>we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which
>includes WWII).
>
>The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there
>are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even
>fewer who realize what losing really means.
>
>First, let’s examine a few basics:
>
>1. When did the threat to us start?
>Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United
>State s is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with
>the following attacks on us:
>
>* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
>* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
>* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
>* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
>* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
>* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
>* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
>* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
>* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
>* New York World Trade Center 2001;
>* Pentagon 2001.
>
>(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581
>terrorist attacks worldwide).
>
>2. Why were we attacked?
>
>Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks
>happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan,
>Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans
>or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents
>or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.
>
>3. Who were the attackers?
>In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.
>
>4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.
>
>5. Isn’t the Muslim Religion peaceful?
>Hopefully, but that is really not m aterial. There is no doubt that
>the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but
>under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian),
>that made no difference. You either went along with the
>administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million
>Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including
>7,000 Polish priests). (see
><http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm>http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm
>)
>
>Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis,
>as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we
>seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although
>Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about
>killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of
>taking over the world - German, Christian or any others.
>
>Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but
>kill all in the way – their own people or the Spanish, French or
>anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans
>were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many
>peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from
>the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on
>doing – by their own pronouncements – killing all of us
>“infidels.” I don’t blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if
>the choice was shut up or die?
>
>
>6. So who are we at war with?
>
>There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than
>the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid
>verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to
>win if you don’t clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.
>
>So with that background, now to the two major questions:
>
>1. Can we lose this war?
>
>2. What does losing really mean?
>
>If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions
>. We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound,
>the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not
>fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?
>
>It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war
>means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about
>our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.
>
>
>What losing really means is:
>
>We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks
>will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they
>want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they
>would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us,
>over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to
>attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them.
>
>We would of course have no future support from other nations, for
>fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are
>impotent and cannot help them.
>
>They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It
>will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain
>hostage. It doesn’t matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain
>to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim
>terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops.
>Anything else they want Spain
>to do will be done. Spain is finished.
>
>The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that
>they might see the light and realize that if we don’t win, they are
>finished too, in that they can’t resist the Muslim terrorists
>without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France
>is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!
>
>If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life
>will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal
>with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can’t stop
>the Muslims, how could anyone else?
>
>The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
>completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too
>and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.
>
>Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple.
>Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really
>put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going
>to take that 100% effort to win.
>
>So, how can we lose the war?
>
>Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by “imploding.”
>That is, defeating o urselves by refusing to recognize the enemy
>and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to
>the war effort If we are united, there is no way that we can lose.
>If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!
>
>Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don’t comprehend the
>life and death seriousness of this situation.
>
>President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of
>Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were
>committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary
>Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are
>taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are
>going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become
>accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil
>rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.
>
>And don’t worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of
>civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the
>victory and in fact added many more since then.
>
>Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?
>
>No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our
>Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this
>conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those
>words apply to war. Get them out of your head.
>
>Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
>Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see
>us lose. I hasten to add that this isn’t because they are disloyal.
>It is because they just don’t recognize what losing means.
>Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we
>are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does
>great damage to our cause.
>
>Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and
>media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps
>exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue,
>involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small
>group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just
>a few months ago
>were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their
>hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own
>people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.
>
>And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed
>400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the
>same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans,
>and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.
>
>And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is
>providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the
>beheading of American prisoners they held.
>
>Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several
>days have thought and talked about nothing else but the
>“humiliating” of some Muslim prisoners – not burning them, not
>dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading
>them, but “humiliating” them. Can this be for real?
>
>The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the
>Secretary of Defense. If this doesn’t show the complete lack of
>comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we
>are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the
>disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.
>
>To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this
>prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome
>burned – totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world.
>Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife.
>Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or
>media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely
>oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into
>which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.
>
>Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels!
>That translates into ALL non-Muslims – not just in the United
>State, but throughout the world.
>
>We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many
>years as being ‘arrogant.’ That charge is valid in at least one
>respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good,
>powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all
>those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back,
>we can defeat anything bad in the world!
>
>We can’t!
>
>If we don’t recognize this, our nation as we know it will not
>survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we
>are defeated.
>
>And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that
>allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion,
>freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone – let alone everyone,
>equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive
>in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.
>
>This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this
>war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted
>fall of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will
>allow history books to be written or read.
>
>If we don’t win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the
>Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will
>continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to
>encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The
>French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should
>not be done, which will continue
>to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn’t that
>sound eerily familiar?
>
>Democracies don’t have their freedoms taken away from them by some
>external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away,
>politically correct piece by politically correct piece.
>
>And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown,
>worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or
>even to themselves, once they are in power.
>They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they
>then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who
>control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically
>correct, about the “peaceful Muslims”?
>
>I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
>united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope the factions in our
>country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and
>will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking
>about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.
>
>After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves,
>but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world.
>
>Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that
>include the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!
>
>Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it.
>Our “leaders” in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those
>that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who
>truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE , share our concerns
>and hold the blind accountable for misleading the masses!
>
>If you would like to see who this fellow is go to this Air Force web
>sight and look him up.
><http://www.af.mil/bios/alpha.asp?alpha=C>http://www.af.mil/bios/alpha.asp?alpha=C

AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA yeah right

so filled with incorrect facts and views it’s not even funny

lol. wow. deep thinker there. so none of that made sense to you huh?

regardless of the source.

propoganda

while I agree racial profiling will initialy help, it doesn’t solve any real security issues

and I especially don’t belive in throwing away freedoms because it makes the job easier

I am not reading the whole thing.

However, as an aside, anybody watch Munich? It is currently on HBO On Demand.

Seen it in the theater. Blinked when they shot that chick with the zipguns on the houseboat :eek:

Wow, nothing but anti-muslim hate speech.

On a totally unrelated note, is there any way to make it so that threads started by someone on your ignore list are not visible at all?

Regardless of incorrect source, it was a good read.

“Muslim hate speech”. That’s funny. Admitting who you are fighting is a hate speech now.

No, not all Muslims are terrorists, a small minority actually. But the terrorists are Muslim.

Its not propaganda at all. It all makes very good sense. You already lost freedoms at the airports. You will continue to lose them because of peoples inability to make controversial but rational decisions to solve a problem that is spiraling out of control.

Ignorance at its best. Like many Americans, if it doesnt affect me directly I dont give a shit speach. Maybe one of these days one of those silly muslims will take out part of your family and then we will see how Politically Correct you feel.

And what problem is that?

My last post in this thread.

We will lose this war, for the simple fact that we’re treating it as a police action, not a war. In war you kill your enemy, and if your enemy hides within a civilian population, that civilian population dies. That’s war. In WWII we killed almost 2 million CIVILIANS in Germany alone. Does this suck? Yes, but that’s war.

In Iraq, a single bomb is off by 10 feet, killing 5 civilians, and the world protests for weeks. The whole system of rules of engagement we’re following over there was drafted by the PC world, and is fundimentally flawed.

So fuck it, pull all our troops out, let the country implode on itself, and in 10 years when it’s 10x more dangerous hopefully the new rules will allow us to have a real war.

and when we profile all the muslims? and all non-radical muslims become offended and grow resentment for the government? when they begin attacks that do not require air travel etc? what then?

it’s been 5 years with no major attacks, I’d say we’re doing just fine

what about the fact that not all terrorist are muslims, there are others that are out there, that alone makes you seem like a racist asshole

non-radical muslims.:lol:
It is not profiling.
It is killing the enemy.:smiley:
j/k

Iraq invades Kuwait->UN sends Iraq home->Iraq violates UN resolutions->Group of extremists based in Afghanistan knocks down 2 US buildings->The US is at war with the world’s Muslim population->the US invades Iraq

Obviously :bloated:

The ONLY reason there have been no major attacks is because security was increased 10 fold. Agencies are profiling (non publicly) and tracking all these low life radicals. I find it ridiculous how people sit on their ass at home staring at Youtube and just because nothing catastrophic has happened they assume we are fine. That is textbook ignorance. We are fine at the moment because thousands of FBI agents and Homeland Security personnel are working their asses off to make sure that is the case.

That article that you laughed at (stupidly) clearly stated the basic radical Muslim objective… and that is to “basically” kill everyone who does not succumb to their beliefs… or everyone who is not Muslim.

They will not stop.

That article was, in fact, an Excellent read and the people makind stupid comments are just that.

I said I wasn’t going to post in here again, but I had to clear one thing up since now I’m “a racist asshole”

Yes, there are terrorists in this world of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. Tim McVieh (sp) certainly wasn’t Muslim. But, looking at this in terms of the war on terror, terror as in the people who attacked us on 9/11, Muslim extremists are the ones we’re fighting. That’s not racist, that’s fact.

not an excelent read, at all

more like hate filled bullshit

we are at war with a nation that never really housed terrorists
we are pulling troops out of afganistan to support this war
we’re up to our necks in shit and have no way of really comming out on top in either scenario

we did the same thing in WWII with camps that held the japanese to what end?

Better to FIX the problem of WHY these radicals hateour country then to try to kill them all

how stupid do you have to be to not see this?

and I don’t have the time or patience to explain to you why the US has grown to be so hated amongst middle eastern countries, there is a long history of us continualy sticking our dick in the middle east when it benifits us, and bailing out on the same groups who now attack us, because we promised them support

bah forget it just stay stupid peace