This thread went to shit. Anybody else out there who can post something positive so we don’t keep getting posts about muggings?
We all know it happens - it’s happened to me personally. Now I know how to prevent that stuff from happening. But do we have to dwell on it?
Free Market > Planning
Progress > Preservation
I’m on the fence for both of those points.
I don’t want this to turn into a regulation vs. deregulation free markets argument, blah blah blah. I went to business school too so I understand all of the benefits an unregulated market might have.
But, I just can’t accept the fact that laissez faire will arrive us at the best possible outcome. It might produce an acceptable or pretty good outcome, but it has to make sense to allow people who study planning and sociology to have some input. They’re backed by research and they study the stuff for a living. Look at what mopar brought up about walking through a parking lot, etc.
As far as progress vs. preservation, I mentioned in one of my prior posts that I agree with both sides. When something’s torn down we can’t bring it back. However, we need progress and development to remain competitive in the new global economy. Stuff like the current situation with the grain elevators, etc. has to be evaluated on a case by case basis, the most likely outcome being a compromise.
^^^ That’s what the city has been doing for years. And it hasn’t worked.
I’d love to see the ages of the people on either side of this discussion.
^^This is pretty much proof that all of the bs Buffalo has been pushing is not as good as free market. Aren’t like 66% of Buffalo jobs govt jobs? Don’t even get me started on that. lol
I know that Fry has a few years on me.
You’re not the first person to think I’m young and naive when it comes to my ideas regarding the city.
Why do I care so much? I grew up in the city, learned to love it for all of the good things it has to offer and I’ve learned to accept its faults.
What I find the most sickening is that there’s other metropolitan areas that have a thriving downtown area where people live, work, and play. Why can’t Buffalo have that? Cities like Chicago, albeit much bigger, have found a way to keep the core alive and not let everyone run for the exit that is the suburbs. Why haven’t we?
---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 AM ----------
I’m not getting what you guys are saying.
Fadetoblack I am deff on your side about what I would “want” out of the city. But I would deff be willing to admit given where the city has gone the last few decades that it is our type of thinking and wanting to keep Buffalo like it “was” that is in fact really hurting it now. So when it comes down for it although I have mixed feelings on many fronts I am going to go with free market and progress.
I thought oh there are ways to have both and still maybe keep it the way we want it too but I still think it is that mindset that butchered many of those deals Buffalo has seen come and go.
But im not all doom and gloom or anything(maybe some neighborhoods cough this one) I have been to many fun and packed events all summer and generally feel that the city pride and spirit is as strong as ever. Hopefully the politicians can get the ball rolling on some good things in our lifetimes.
What I am saying is Buffalo needs to loosen up a bit and let the private market do what it wants. The balance is tricky, you can’t total free reign but you can’t strangle it either. Buffalo has been doing more strangling than embracing new business from what I have seen.
Here is a question…
Which would give Buffalo a bigger spot light; radical reconstruction or clinging to the past? There are thousands of buildings in Buffalo and lets say two dozen have “real” historic significance. Demo every other building and PRESTO you have got open space with infrastrcution already in place! Maybe extreme idea but I am just sayin we need something radical, not Bass Pro, etc.
On top of that I hear a lot of stories about bribery being demanded hidden behind planning and preservation.
This thread really shows why Buffalo isn’t going to improve. The few people left in the city have this halo surrounded picture in their head of what they want the city to be and any time someone from outside the city wants to invest money there if the plan doesn’t fit the halo picture it meets major resistance.
I mean, REALLY… you guys are against building a brand new store in that section of town? With Buffalo’s unreal unemployment numbers even? Until these pie in the sky preservationist and dreamers get it through their heads that something is better than nothing the city is a lost cause.
You shouldn’t assume that’s what I meant. For the record, it was just as much about the “cons” being above a median age as it was the “pros” being below it.
I AM NOT A PRESERVATIONIST lol
I have said that I think three or four times now in this thread.
I want the city to be exactly what the core areas of Chicago, Philadelphia, and Boston are. Vibrant areas where people live, work, and play. Not ghost towns.
I AM ALL FOR INVESTMENT IN THE CITY, IT JUST HAS TO MAKE THE SITUATION BETTER, NOT WORSE.
A grocery store that is going to be put into the area which will not only take business away from local vendors but will ship its profits back to Germany will only hurt the situation. The whole planning/parking lot thing is only a minor issue.
The best possible thing to happen, and it’s admittedly A LOT to ask for is to have somebody, anybody who is local try to start up a business there, and then try to put most of their profits from their business back to the local economy.
A German company that builds a store here is pretty much pimping our economy. Local people will spend their money earned in our local economy at their store, and then the profits, whatever is left after the cost of materials, labor and overhead gets sent back to their foreign shareholders. Our economy is seriously getting pimped when that happens - money earned here LEAVES here and all that does is make us weaker.
---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------
:tup:
My fault, I just expected that because I’ve heard people tell me that A LOT.
It highly doubt an Aldi’s is going to take business away from the Broadway Market.
Go do it.
No offense intended in the slightest, but go and do it.
Those big bad faceless foreign investors are the only willing AND able investors because they have enough other assets to mitigate the risk of opening a location that is high risk, possible marginal reward. By that I mean the local mgmt for them HAS to have advised them that more revenue will be spent on security and on loss (theft and maintenance) then other locations.
Also, would you rather decry a foreign investor bringing 50 (? - i have no ideas about how many people work in an aldis, but given the type of store I presume there will be quite a few ancillary jobs / vendors that will pick up along with it) stable and relatively assured jobs to that area because the companies profits leave town, or would you rather gain no additional jobs while you hold your breath for a local investor to take the risk?
As far as the Broadway market - Fry hit the nail on the head. Furthermore, if the save alot in there hasnt killed the market, why would an aldis?
The fact that the city is raising a stink about the parking lot being in the front is completely insane in my eyes. This thread has got me thinking a bunch about politics. It makes me want to get involved but I would not even know where to start. I have a feeling I would be really good at irritating people though.
Exactly what Nikuk said.
A large company can afford to take the risk. And if the business loses money, they can write the location off as a corporate tax loss and at least they’re still creating jobs. As opposed to joe-shmoe Buffalo local opening a store on hopes & dreams, only to close 6 months later.
I’m sorry, but it’s a naive hippy dream that Buffalo is going to be saved by Buffalo. We need outside money because their isn’t enough here. And we’re not going to attract outside money when we’re worried about the size of a parking lot.
BUT IT’S A QUARTER MILE LONG!
at least we will have someplace close to race lol
This is the nonsense that we’re talking about. Notice the parking lot across the street with a shop behind it, just like what Aldis is proposing. :ham: