if car makers wanted to make their hybrids look REALLY good they would replace that gas engine with a diesel engine so the base milage is 40+ then they can still pick up 10-15 points with the hybrid system.
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it’s in the works, but it’s not as easy.
we have a “dollar vote” going on. many people buying hybrids understand the technology is young and will get better. by buying into it now they are using their consumer power to say “we like this, continue to develop more and make it better”
its not easy? you are swaping one object that has a rotating output for another that is 20% more efficent. It isn’t hard. toyota just doesn’t have a diesel in their lineup anywhere so I understand why toyota doesn’t have one. Ford had diesels overseas that they could use in the escape hybrid and so does chrysler if chrysler were to makea hybrid.
all toyota would have to do is say hey VW I need 40,000 TDI 4 cylinders and VW would say GRRR I own almost everything here you go.
There was a Prius at UB with a plate that read “GasSiper” (or something)I blew by driving the vette. It made me laugh and think if “Gas Guzzler” would fit on a plate.
I think the one good thing you guys forget to mention is the Tax credits originally available, that can lead a good chunk of change every year. The Prius was good for $3150 in 2005. That’s pretty a pretty good amount. Take that into account, the gas saving, and the resale after 2 years, and it was a pretty decent buy for certain people.
On the flip side, I read that the batteries need to get up to temperature in order to assist the gasoline engine, and in the winter on the short trips that doesn’t happen. However I don’t know anyone with a hybrid that has actually confirmed this.
its not easy? you are swaping one object that has a rotating output for another that is 20% more efficent. It isn’t hard. toyota just doesn’t have a diesel in their lineup anywhere so I understand why toyota doesn’t have one. Ford had diesels overseas that they could use in the escape hybrid and so does chrysler if chrysler were to makea hybrid.
all toyota would have to do is say hey VW I need 40,000 TDI 4 cylinders and VW would say GRRR I own almost everything here you go.
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I’m no engineer, but it’s not that simple… the prius doesn’t just have a random motor off the rack. things like constant start stop and other crap factor in.
nissan has a cool system in the works that’s a diesel hybrid that charges a capacitor instead of using batteries.
I think the one good thing you guys forget to mention is the Tax credits originally available, that can lead a good chunk of change every year. The Prius was good for $3150 in 2005. That’s pretty a pretty good amount. Take that into account, the gas saving, and the resale after 2 years, and it was a pretty decent buy for certain people.
On the flip side, I read that the batteries need to get up to temperature in order to assist the gasoline engine, and in the winter on the short trips that doesn’t happen. However I don’t know anyone with a hybrid that has actually confirmed this.
X…
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IIRC the tax credit has decreased a ton. I think it’s only up to $1000 now. I used to work at a yota dealer. Still it’s better than nothing.
Another shitty thing about a prius is… if you get stuck in snow…there is NO way to turn on traction control. Which means, as soon as the wheels slip it cuts power.
VERY dumb idea
I’m no engineer, but it’s not that simple… the prius doesn’t just have a random motor off the rack. things like constant start stop and other crap factor in.
nissan has a cool system in the works that’s a diesel hybrid that charges a capacitor instead of using batteries.
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the start/stop on the engine on the prius is a bullshit feature. If you have ever driven one then you know that the engine is on 99% of the time for most comuters. That feature could be eliminated and not missed. the only thing you have to deal with is the different rpm range od a diesel compared to a gas engine. a TDI revs to 4500rpm where the prius engine runs up to 6500rpm but that is a minor issue.
There are many pros/cons to the hybrid argument - but bottom-line, the technology is in its infancy. The big issue is if the hybrid can serve as a bridge to an electric/fuel cell vehicle.
Battery life is a significant issue with hybrids. At the moment, Toyota isn’t supportive of the Prus plug-in conversions as the standard hybrid’s programming is designed to be easy on the battery… that is, no deep charge/discharge cycles. A plug-in will necessarily be able to do that to be effective. If you continually deep-cycle the batteries with a daily commute, I’m sure you’d see a much shorter battery life than the crrent hybrids. And noone hs commented on how battery degradation has affected the mileage of older hybrids, either. I think this is a major reason for concern when thinking of buying an older hybrid… I mean, I’d bet many people on this board would have no problem buying a mid-90’s Honda as a beater, but I think these same people would think twice about buying a 2001 Prius in 2015 if they knew that a $5k battery pack replacement was needed.
In all, I think we’ll get nowhere in terms of a real reduction in energy costs/carbon reduction unless we have a COMPREHENSIVE energy policy… stop-gaps like a plug-in car only shifts the problem elsewhere.
I was just reading this… makes the prius look pretty good in terms of both saving money and helping the environment:
Toyota Prius
Hybrid value rank: 1
Time to recoup premium in fuel savings alone: 4.2 years
Typical cost: $22,279
Compared to: Toyota Camry LE 4-cylinder
Hybrid cost premium: $2,303 (Based on Edmunds.com “True Market Value.” No tax credits are available on Toyota vehicles.)
Overall mpg vs. non-hybrid: 46 vs. 29.9
Annual fuel savings: $543 (175 gallons)
The comparison to a 4-cylinder Camry makes sense because the Prius offers almost the same amount of interior space. Since the Prius was designed from the wheels up as a hybrid vehicle, its hatchback body style offers ample storage space.
The Prius’ hybrid-only design also allowed engineers to maximize its fuel economy. For instance, the Prius gains fuel economy through its unique aerodynamic shape as well as through its hybrid drivetrain.
still lame. there is no proof that the prius helps the environment.
if you want max mileage, buy a VW TDI powered car. real world observed mileage by a friend of mine that has had multiple Jetta TDI’s, both MKIII and MKIV. 48mpg AROUND TOWN and 52 on the highway.
I agree with you there though. or at least do a hostile takeover of a oil rich country to give the media something legitimate to cry about. lol.
the prius still gets beat by diesels and there has been alot of effort put into hybrids as well as money and they still get their butt handed to them by diesels. we’ll see when/if the technology matures and gets better. id still rather have a diesel. plus you can run them on nasty old fryer grease, personally reducing your dependence on foreign oil
im actually going to try to convert my furnace to run on preheated fryer grease. i wanna save on heating costs.
Remember that the government loves fuel tax revenue. If new CAFE rules and hybrids and such reduce our oil consumption by X percent then the per gallon revenue deacreases by that much. Sales tax and percentage taxes would stay the same. Thus the per gallon revenue will have to be made up somewhere. Possibly higher per gallon taxes, possibly higher per dollar fuel taxes, maybe mileage taxes or highway use taxes like trucks pay, lots of possibilities. You can rest assured the government will make up the money lost to better fuel economy somewhere.
As for burning veggie, they make tax that. Or I can seen NYS charging you $500 per year for a ‘refining’ permit. Google it, some people making veggie have already got in legal trouble and/or been forced to shut down by the man. Why? Less tax revenue for the government and less revenue for the oil companies that own the government.
IMO future vehicles may pollute less, may consume less fossil fuel, but they sure as hell won’t cost less to operate. The treehuggers would like to think we will spend more on ‘greener’ transportation just so we can feel good about ourselves.
the EV1 (with second gen batteries) proves you wrong. they were very cheap to maintain but were still an immature technology.
and diesels are very efficient because they can run super lean which will give great highway numbers, but they get destroyed by hybrids in a city / stop and go environment.
My favorite part of the whole “eco car” movement is how little thought goes into the disruptions to the system that these new fads create.
Perfect example, ethanol. “Oooh, this will help reduce our oil consumption, and we can grow it here. Lets mandate it!”.
Result: The price of everything we eat has been steadily going up with no end in sight. No one had the foresight to realize that the majority of our food pyramid rests on corn, and when you redirect it’s use to non-food sources the cost goes up exponentially.
Wait until we’re dealing with rolling backouts in 5 to 10 years when plug in hybrids and pure electric cars are the norm, but no one thought ahead about how much additional drain they will place on our already taxed power grid.
and diesels are very efficient because they can run super lean which will give great highway numbers, but they get destroyed by hybrids in a city / stop and go environment.
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what is the real world city mileage for a prius? i mean, 48mpg city for a jetta TDI real world is pretty good. its a heavy car (relatively) as well.
Wait until we’re dealing with rolling backouts in 5 to 10 years when plug in and pure electric hybrids are the norm, but no one thought ahead about how much additional drain they will place on our already taxed power grid.
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That could be a problem. But you can always drive around with a ten horse coleman generator strapped to the trunk - assuming they don’t outlaw them.
I’m just hoping that with the economy going to hell people will realize they can’t afford so much ‘green’ and some of this fad will die.
On another note we have a Chyrsler Aspen HEV at work right now. It’s actually a pretty good idea in that you don’t lose much utility over the regular SUV. Again it’s the battery cost that is in question.
The only thing I don’t like about it is that there is no reverse in the transmission. You are electric only in reverse. The test drivers have gotten it buried a few times while testing in mud and slow because you just can’t get a lot of acceleration and wheelspeed out of it in reverse, esp in 4wd. They say it can tow 6000lbs but we’re not sure how well it will back a 6000lb camper up your driveway.
