City kids to join da burb kidz


#101

Really? You don’t know anyone that does more than 12 hour days? Well… okay…

Anyway, I’d argue that having an impoverished class lends to society a ruler by which others judge themselves (i.e. it’s a tool used for social control). So, yeah, I’m against sending inner city kids to the suburbs because if you take away what the middle class EARNED how else will the wealthy class convince the middle class that living in debt to them most of their lives is the way it ought to be?


#102

While i agree with all your other comments 100% Grand island has some of the cheapest taxes around. We paid 450,000 for our house and our taxes are under 13k. Just sold a house in amherst for 50k and taxes were 3200. People think gi taxes are higher as the houses are worth more so the taxes look higher. My one buddy closed on a house few mos back, paid 85 and i think his taxes are 1900 ish


#103

I like how you say “our taxes are still under 13K” likes it’s a bargain. That’s nuts man.


#104

I know people who live in $400,000 houses in Clarence (14051 Zip) and pay $9000. Grand Island taxes are exactly in line with East Amherst. There aren’t many other places in WNY where a $450k house would have $13k in taxes.


#105

This is one more way to destroy any thought of accountability for your actions. This country and our society as a whole are on a slippery slope to collapse. The violence we see in the middle east right now will happen here within my lifetime, that is one thing I am absolutely sure of.


#106

Do you even realize why there is violence in the Middle East? lol

I mean its only been happening for thousands of years because of religious beliefs[COLOR=“Silver”]


#107

If we were all equal we would all just get along! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

What if they offered this to promising kids from the inner city, those currently over-achieving despite their surroundings? Would it not behoove our society as a whole, to offer deserving students access to a better education? DHS is being built up to protect us from civil unrest…from ourselves. Don’t worry? 8/

The love of money is a religion of sorts IMO.


#108

I should have clarified… I was just referencing the violent protests, not the reasons behind them.

I would still disagree. If you live in a school district then you go to those schools or pay for private somewhere you want your kids to go. End of story. If you can’t move or pay for private schools then make the best of what you have. If you work hard then you’ll stand out from the crowd no matter what.


#109

So it’s okay for tax payers (both upper & lower class) to subsidize business development etc… but the subsidization of education for a select few lower class kids is offensive? Helping those that are trying to help themselves is something I believe would pay dividends to our society…and I’m not even an Democrat. :wink:


#110

I think you are underestimating the difficulties of “standing out from the crowd” in some inner city schools. Do you think culture (peers) influences personal accountability, or is personal accountability an independent variable?

here’s something from a very unbiased news source ( :wink: ) http://www.npr.org/2013/02/21/172593743/chicago-kids-say-theyre-assigned-to-gangs

I was on the outreach team at Johnson Controls that worked with Milwaukee Public Schools. What was fascinating was how students “test into” high schools (many high schools in cities are not neighborhood specific), and if a student gets sent to their 3rd choice school it can be very devastating. For an adult it is easy to think the individual just needs to tough it out, but there’s a lot of bad shit that goes on in these other high schools that is deleterious to a developing mind. What if the student has an extenuating circumstance (which a lot of things are when you’re a kid) that prevents them from “standing out from the crowd”? Does society just give up and keep them impoverished? What is a person to do in order to feel like they have “control of their life”?

One student’s parent pulled him out of the program because he was assaulted by another student while walking home at a later time. Brilliant kid.

I think back to my time in high school and how difficult it was to actually “stand out from the crowd” for being gay. I think I barely passed my Math B exam (as it turns out that Math A/B experiment was inherently flawed anyway) because it was in the morning before gym class, where I was more likely to be bullied and I used to show up to school late. Anyway, I chose to graduate early and attend Niagara County Community College and found out I wasn’t stupid.

You know what, though? If I didn’t have parents who bought me my first car (which got me to every other university-level class or function, by the way), I wouldn’t have been able to reach even that basic point since NCCC was not very accessible (it’s pretty much in the middle of farmland). And here we are, appropriating money to the ECC campus in the “middle of nowhere” Williamsville instead of the city campus where public transportation, while still shitty, is less of a burden and could provide an option for the “above-average but not-quite-there-yet” students. Anyway, some people in the suburbs who fall in this category can just rely on the age old catalyst of nepotism (“catalyst” because some of these people actually do work hard). I wonder if they’re appropriating money in Williamsville because the chosen development company as ties to that area? (http://artvoice.com/issues/v10n13/the_great_UB_heist)

The most significant constructions currently underway on the UB North Campus are the Greiner-Hadley projects, which include the $57 million William R. Greiner Residence Hall, named after the former UB president. Greiner’s son, Kevin T. Greiner, secured and managed over $45 million in new development projects when he worked for Ciminelli Development as senior development project manager.

The bond for the residence hall, dated May 20, 2010, is valued at $82,865,000, and lists LPCiminelli Inc. as the construction manager.

I think people from the more affluent suburbs have this model in their head for how they’ll furnish productive little beings. They place a huge impact factor (multiplier) on quality of their K-12 education and want to protect it since it’s so integral to their kids becoming… doctors and lawyers? I think the equation they use is probably not very accurate. Neither NTHS or NCCC are high pedigree places, and I still managed to get in to a ultra selective university as a transfer student. I still managed to work for and produce wonderful data for the at-the-time President of the Eletrochemical Society. I worked hard and made sacrifices, yes, but I can’t say success exists in two dimensions. It’s also a product of circumstance.

And plentiful amounts of coffee. And eating out of vending machines. And laughing a lot. Apparently.

It doesn’t fucking matter what suburban high school you go to because when the white people left the cities they took the businesses (money) with them.

It does matter what urban high school you go to because the pitfalls are much deeper.

I have a hope that the future generations will have a desire to live in cities and finally mend, on a community level, the unintended circumstances desegregation caused. Or they’ll just gentrify neighborhoods and push the impoverished class into the vacuum they’ll create in the suburbs.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_2lGkEU4Xs[/video]


#111

Business development subsidies are based on a certain area and the benefit goes to the people in that area. If other districts want to send their students to my district then they can write my district a check for each student to cover the cost. Our tax money is wasted in so many areas and goes to people who don’t deserve it this would be much less of a problem if that weren’t the case. Frankly I am sick of working my ass off to watch half of my income get throw in the garbage by people who think we should be “fair”. What about me? Is it fair to me? No fucking way but what would I know… I am just some suburban rich guy who can afford to fix the whole world.

EDIT: Dividends will start being paid when parents start raising their own kids. This is where the accountability end comes in that we seriously lack in our society. You can’t weaken the strong to strengthen the weak.


#112

Yes, I agree, but how do we get there?


#113

Carpet bomb the city and start fresh?

I keed.


#114

So you feel subsidization can be a productive mechanism…but only when it directly benefits a business? I feel worthwhile subsidies produce widespread social benefit, not enhanced, isolated profits to a sole benefactor. Without widespread social benefit subsidies are simple handouts to crony capitalists, money “thrown in the garbage”. I don’t view taking a few eager, worthy students and helping them break the cycle of poverty as a handout, I view it as a subsidy that would pay society back WITH INTEREST down the road. :wink:

I don’t fault you for your success, I dig your business model and customer service…I have referred MANY people to your brand. I don’t think you “can afford to fix the whole world”, stop being so dramatic. Nurturing deserving young minds would likely reduce petty crime and stimulate innovation down the road. I reject the notion that helping PEOPLE rather than BUSINESS equates to “throwing half your income” in the garbage. Keep in mind I too despise the extreme liberal mindset, hands held out demanding what’s “fair”. I think you are viewing my suggestion here with a combative bias. I’m not looking for a handout dude, we’re in this together.

Dividends will start being paid when parents start raising their own kids. This is where the accountability end comes in that we seriously lack in our society. You can’t weaken the strong to strengthen the weak.

I agree, without the financial ability to properly raise your own child you have no business creating one. Sadly this just isn’t our reality, so how do we go about interrupting this damning cycle we face? I would hope we all can agree, handouts do NOT help. On the other hand, I feel strategic subsidies just might make a difference.

Added-------
I recently moved to an area with rather high taxes yet I have no kids, nor am I having kids. Is this not a form of subsidizing societies future rather than business? I don’t begrudge some re-distribution of my money when it’s going to a good cause like education.

Speaking of subsidization, WNY is surely heavily subsidized by the NYC financial district. If anyone thinks WNY could sprawl as we have and sustain our lifestyle given our local economy/tax base you may have silly putty in your head. Oh and speaking of sprawl, having spread out infrastructure like wealthy areas do is actually subsidized by surrounding areas that are not spread out. Even with the high taxes in wealthy spread out areas, people are not paying their “fair share”. Look at Detroit, a perfect example of trying to maintain a sprawling infrastructure on declining tax base. Just some food for thought.


#115

The country as a whole isn’t accountable for their actions. The “me, me, me” generation is starting to be overshadowed by the “what about me?” generation.


#116

Do you think there’s a risk of devaluing the education in these places by enacting this program? It seems like there’s a NIMBY attitude toward this, which may not be unrealistic. But, as with a lot of justification, they turn into this on/off switch rather than something of a variable nature.

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What if this doesn’t work due to stereotype threat? In other words, instead of the students performing better because they rise along with their new cohort, they fail because they fear, wrongly, that they are inferior?


#117

http://www.geographic.org/country_ranks/educational_score_performance_country_ranks_2009_oecd.html

America!


#118

There is risk of course, any worthy reward requires taking on some risk. I feel if you properly calculate the risk up front and have a mechanism to filter out turds, the water shall remain drinkable. I would never suggest taking on kids that might retard the pace/quality of education in areas with good programs. Education often sags to the lowest common denominator, I’m not oblivious to this reality. :slight_smile:

What if this doesn’t work due to stereotype threat? In other words, instead of the students performing better because they rise along with their new cohort, they fail because they fear, wrongly, that they are inferior?

Wouldn’t this also come down to parenting? If “good parents” talk shit about the transplants causing their children to despise them…are they really good parents? But we’re back to square one at that point aren’t we? Poor parenting? Hrmmm.


#119

It’s not “cool” to be smart. It’s cooler to barely pass and have swagger.


#120

Well, Maybe the U.S. should ship its top students across the border to Canada?