John is a big guy, Im sure he’d have no problem with unsprung heavy
duty clutches. And oh yea, you aren’t going to find a good clutch for less
then $400cad. I’d set your budget to about $500 for a good clutch.
And by good I don’t mean baller expensive shit wit marked up prices
because of the brand name (i.e. anything JDM).
Plus John, are you going to drive this car like it’s meant to be
driven or show it off for all its cool, expensive, unique parts?
Hector,
Can I know your setup?? I assume your making some good power to be running an unsprung disk.
Why do you need to be making good power to run an unsprung disk??
Not going to happen for under $400, but can easilly be done under $500.
Why do you need to be making good power to run an unsprung disk??
Not going to happen for under $400, but can easilly be done under $500.[/quote]
You dont but why would you run an unsprung disk in a low-mid hp street car is beyond me. Unsprung disks are made for racing and I assume most of us here drive our 240s on the street so why not run a sprung disk. The instant engagement of an unsrpung disk on the street isnt fun nor practical (not saying it cant be done) hence why I cant see any advantages. Price difference?? Baller factor?? Drifting only??
Id also like to know why you are running an unsprung disk with a soft pressure plate. No disrespect just trying to understand why because it seems mismatched to me.
Oh and no one take this post the wrong way, all Im trying to say is that for 99% of the people on this board an unsprung clutch is not needed so why even mention it.
the only clutch ive ever driven that was fucking ridiculous was varuns exedy
i honestly almost didnt have the strength to press the pedal
but even after 2-3stops you get it down its not that bad
it was an HKS clutch not exedy …but yea, it was really stupid…the good thing was that ever after 40 laps on the circuit it still wasnt slipping at all, it was always my pads and rotors glowing bright red that made me come in to cool down…however, because of this clutch, my left calf is much bigger then my right one…I would not go with such an agressive clutch ever again, the best balanced clutch that i have experience with is the ACT ceramic 6 puck…its good for about 350 ft lbs and is not to bad on the calf muscle…thats my 2 cents…another thing, the ACT was 500 bucks, and the HKS is over 1400 …two totally different setups but $$ is something to consider for sure.
Why do you need to be making good power to run an unsprung disk??
Not going to happen for under $400, but can easilly be done under $500.[/quote]
You dont but why would you run an unsprung disk in a low-mid hp street car is beyond me. Unsprung disks are made for racing and I assume most of us here drive our 240s on the street so why not run a sprung disk. The instant engagement of an unsrpung disk on the street isnt fun nor practical (not saying it cant be done) hence why I cant see any advantages. Price difference?? Baller factor?? Drifting only??
Id also like to know why you are running an unsprung disk with a soft pressure plate. No disrespect just trying to understand why because it seems mismatched to me.
Oh and no one take this post the wrong way, all Im trying to say is that for 99% of the people on this board an unsprung clutch is not needed so why even mention it.[/quote]
I went with an unsprung disc because I liked the way it engauged on a friends car with solid mount. Most clutch failures I’ve seen are from the springs popping out of the disk.
When I ordered my clutch they forgot to make it a dual diaphrame pressure plate. For now it’s no big deal, but it’s going to own me later.
^^^^ is the same reaon as mine , ilike how it engages, ive always had great luck with them , the first one i got was in my stock S13, and in all hoinestly cuz i could do mad dirty burnouts with it , then on my supra .cuz well i like how grabby it was and that i could still slip it , and ive tried other clutches, and i just didnt like them as much , and also i found that after some serious driving and hard clutching that the kevlar discs tend to slip , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
i just like them personally i thin kevery one that complains about haveing a hard time with the clutch pedal has to be a pansy, hydraulic clutch guys , it makes it as east as fuck , i could see u guys complaining about it if we had cable clutches, but man common , get with it u fucking pansies,
i dunno , what do i know , ive never even worked on a 240 before , shit ive never driven a car
Why do you need to be making good power to run an unsprung disk??
Not going to happen for under $400, but can easilly be done under $500.[/quote]
You dont but why would you run an unsprung disk in a low-mid hp street car is beyond me. Unsprung disks are made for racing and I assume most of us here drive our 240s on the street so why not run a sprung disk. The instant engagement of an unsrpung disk on the street isnt fun nor practical (not saying it cant be done) hence why I cant see any advantages. Price difference?? Baller factor?? Drifting only??
Id also like to know why you are running an unsprung disk with a soft pressure plate. No disrespect just trying to understand why because it seems mismatched to me.
Oh and no one take this post the wrong way, all Im trying to say is that for 99% of the people on this board an unsprung clutch is not needed so why even mention it.[/quote]
its not about needing and not needing , u dont need a turbo, u dont need a body kit , u dont need 18’s , u dont need a pimped out stereo, u dont need bings super ricer altezza tail light, u get the picture? u dotn neeed it , shit a 300whp 240 is over kill for the streets , but people still have them, but id rather recomend over kill then something they may have to replace by not going with over kill, u want drivability go buy a lincon, u want fast go buy a ferrari, u want fun and affordability… get a 240 and go over kill
super grabby clutch, less loss of power due to slippage , fun as hell to chirp 3 gear wih a stock ka and 18’S , i dunno man
Gonad you web-ricer :lol:
Don’t post a link to your new website if you haven’t even uploaded a single page 
Paitence young padawan. The site will be revealed shortly.
yah what is this bings.ca ??
Dude, read what you quote, it’s a healthy practice.
Applesauce DOESN’T HAVE AN UPGRADED PRESSURE PLATE
Hector, probably half the reason you have no problems is due to the fact that Kevlar doesn’t grab for shit.
I don’t know what’s more irritating; people that pretend they know what they’re talking about, or people that don’t know what they’re talking about but scream at the top of their lungs they know what they’re talking about – all the while proving the opposite.
And yeah, if you get Jobber rate at Eurodrive … you can get stuff cheaper. But that’s you. I don’t deal with Eurodrive, but they are no different from any other clutch RE & RE company.
I can get stuff super cheap at jobber rate too, from anywhere, all you really need is a PST number and a half decent command of the english language.1997 might be a long time for you … dunno. 8 or 9 years against 50+ …
well, you might get an Xmas card from them.
But the fact is most people here - y’know, on a forum where a whole bunch of people get together - can’t get jobber rates, so don’t tell them to go out and buy something because it’s “sooo cheap” when it’s not going to be cheap for them LOL.
I know people that have paid over $400 from Eurodrive for a somewhat mildly rebuilt stock clutch.
Forget weaksauce 240s and halfway decent 240s … who has driven 600hp cars on the street? With a cable operated clutch?
Buying a clutch just so you can “chirp the tires” or “peel out” at the risk of the rest of your stock driveline sounds 100% rice to me.
If you still think that while driving you are somehow trolling your manhood along, by all means, buy the stupidest clutch you can. Hell, why not go 100% metal clutch? That’ll grab.
I got some questions (cause Im not a pro and would like to better myself here) Im sure others may also be interested…
So Kevlar will not hold worth a shit ? But it does/can/will last longer then many other materials which can be used for a disk/pucks etc etc ?
If you use a Kevlar Disk, then its pretty much a must to have a killer Pressure Plate to keep the clutch from slipping ?
If you can keep a Kevlar Disk from slipping by using a heavy duty Pressure Plate. Then why not just use a Kevlar Disk “regardless of how well they hold” and just use a Heavy Duty PP to make it hold… As the Kevlar Disk will last longer then many others.
If you try to use a Heavy Duty PP to make the Kevlar Disk hold or whatever… will it then cause the Kevlar Disk to wear faster ?
Then lastly… Pro’s & Con’s on Materials which can be used… Sprung or Un-Sprung Disks, Disks & Pressure Plate Designs ? (or your opinion on each I should say)
My Opinion
(based on facts and such)
Kevlar retains too much heat.
Basically instead of dispersing the heat, it retains it. The hotter it gets, the worse it grabs.
Yeah it lasts long, but it has no burst strength.
That’s why you see it very often in big diesel trucks. They need to stretch out service time as long as possible.
You could improve its clamping abilities by using an upgraded pressure plate, but it will still become inconsistent. Your first couple engagements will be better, but it will heat up faster. Which sucks and is really frustrating, because clutch feel/engagement will change as you drive. Having to reassess every gear change on the track or during “spirited driving” is no fun.
Basically the only reason to go with an unsprung clutch is for the fastest possible engagement (ie drag racing).
In an effort to reduce reciprocating weight, the springs are removed. Those springs are there to absorb unwanted drivetrain vibrations.
This is where the unsprung clutch really shines. But the thing is, this is the only advantage it has over a sprung clutch.
It’s like killing a cockroach with a handgun.
In 99% of applications, a sprung clutch is 100% up to the task.
Honestly, until you’re over 300whp (like really, not as in “with my next boatload of planned mods, I’ll hit 300”), you don’t need to get crazy with your clutch.
For the street/occasional track
I’d recommend a semi organic/copper material (run of the mill upgraded friction material) with a dual diaphragm pressure plate. This can be done affordably, will last a long time, won’t destroy the rest of your driveline (well, it can, but …). It will act just the same as before, except with probably a slightly stiffer pedal.
But that’s me. I’m not especially hard on clutches.
For constant track abuse … well, more metallic/less organic.
Think of it in simplest terms. A clutch is like a brake. It is friction material pressed against a disk. The metal is there for heat dispersion and the organic material is there for clamping power.
Once the organic overheats though, it burns and won’t grab, so you need the copper.
Truth be told, any clutch will suffer from 3 hours of relentless clutch kicks.
Full race … well, now we’d be getting into sintered iron, and well … that’s really nuts on a street car. Like nuts as in crazy, in a bad way.
Just make sure to have your flywheel resurfaced. Soooooo many people opt out of it because of the extra cost (honestly it’s under $50). And then they’re surprised when their $900 clutch doesn’t last very long.
As for shape/design … it’s more complicated than it needs to be. Buttons, pucks, nubs, whatever you want to call them are little pieces of friction material. By applying less (quantity) but more (grabbier material) you get the same amount of clamping force but way better heat dissipation and less rotating mass.
With the big 4 pucks, the friction material tends to be insane to provide the same grip out of much less material. That’s why they chatter. That chatter is actually your flywheel bouncing or skipping off the pressure plate. You know how if you throw something at something that is spinning it gets tossed back at you? Spit on a fan belt, you’ll get what I mean. The clutch engages so harshly it kicks the motor forward on the engine mounts, enough to break the friction between flywheel and clutch.
Most important factors when choosing a clutch
Torque output
Launch RPM
Your Tolerance
Sure, most of you can live with bad mamma jamma clutches, if you don’t need them, don’t bother.
I’m currently using sprung 6puck ceramic clutch. It’s pretty much an on/off switch. It takes delicate peddle pressure to get it to slip to get the car moving. It’s not going to be a picnic during rush hour on the 401 and DVP. Then again, my 240 is not my daily driver.
As everyone said, it’s not going to be for everyone.
my 2 cents.
:noes:
Crap.
Dude, read what you quote, it’s a healthy practice.
Applesauce DOESN’T HAVE AN UPGRADED PRESSURE PLATE
Hector, probably half the reason you have no problems is due to the fact that Kevlar doesn’t grab for shit.
I don’t know what’s more irritating; people that pretend they know what they’re talking about, or people that don’t know what they’re talking about but scream at the top of their lungs they know what they’re talking about – all the while proving the opposite.
And yeah, if you get Jobber rate at Eurodrive … you can get stuff cheaper. But that’s you. I don’t deal with Eurodrive, but they are no different from any other clutch RE & RE company.
I can get stuff super cheap at jobber rate too, from anywhere, all you really need is a PST number and a half decent command of the english language.1997 might be a long time for you … dunno. 8 or 9 years against 50+ …
well, you might get an Xmas card from them.
But the fact is most people here - y’know, on a forum where a whole bunch of people get together - can’t get jobber rates, so don’t tell them to go out and buy something because it’s “sooo cheap” when it’s not going to be cheap for them LOL.
I know people that have paid over $400 from Eurodrive for a somewhat mildly rebuilt stock clutch.
Forget weaksauce 240s and halfway decent 240s … who has driven 600hp cars on the street? With a cable operated clutch?
Buying a clutch just so you can “chirp the tires” or “peel out” at the risk of the rest of your stock driveline sounds 100% rice to me.
If you still think that while driving you are somehow trolling your manhood along, by all means, buy the stupidest clutch you can. Hell, why not go 100% metal clutch? That’ll grab.[/quote]
i have a kevlar clutch now , i had a full ceramic on my supra, and it wasnt hard to drive, but yur right , i dont know my shit , and it must be irritating , i fell off the turnip truck yesterday, im happy u think that
who has driven 600hp cars on the street? With a cable operated clutch?
ohh ohh ohh pick me coach pick me , i know the answer to this one, oh its me
u should open a school and teach everyone about everything to do with cars, cuz clearly u are the smartest person alive
yur right getting a clutch that is super grabby that will allow u to chirp tires into 3rd is ricey, but hey princess u wanna know why that happens? maybe cuz its gettting more power to the ground… maybe im wrong, correct me oh wise one
anyways , john u wnat a clutch call me ill get u one at retail for 300 bucks , as opposed to mr.200’s buddy that got ripped off for 400 bucks , maybe ill even give u jobber rate i dunno depends if u promise me another one of those yummy chocolate cakes
oh and youd never get jobber price cuz it seems u dont have a good command of the english language
Dude, read what you quote, it’s a healthy practice.
cuz my freind i never quoted APPLESAUCE as saying he had a stiff pressure plate , i quoted him as saying thats the reason u guys find the clutch pedal to be stiff
but ur a crafty individual, im sure you will try to come up with something else
I don’t know what’s more irritating; people that pretend they know what they’re talking about, or people that don’t know what they’re talking about but scream at the top of their lungs they know what they’re talking about – all the while proving the opposite.
maybe find some more disses like this one that uve conveiniently quoted from somewhere else , dont u know plagerism is frowned upon?
STFU 200.
kevlar does heat up, so does everything else… whoopie… what kevlar does do well is maintian it’s engagment profile over a broad heat range and it allows for high and low clamping force as well as feathering ( clutch slip ). Kevlar works just fine if it’s setup right… and that’s the key , set up right. obviously your ’ facts’ are gbased on poorly chosen pressur plate weights and very poorly chosen sintering serfaces. ( Up to a point, the 35-40% over stock torque ) the kevlar is a great clutch choice for those on a budget. http://www.bullyclutch.com/
I worked with them to develop a ‘drift clutch’, high clamp forces with the ability to feather out the clutch for extended periods of time on a 450-500hp rx7 as the target range… the setup included the stage 2 Sachs acvitve core segmented kevlar clutch with the stage 6 ( not listed ) roller bearing 3500lb pressure plate. ( roller system reduces weight to something around the 2200lb OEM weight )…
This is another typical thread where people start to bitch and fight over a few $100… for a key part of the system… It’s simple, you want to play the game you need to pay. You can’t get something for nothing and that somthing is usually going to cost more then a few days worth of saved coin from not buying your cigarettes.
For the orginal poster, ‘pucked ceramic or ferro ceramic’ will chatter, regardless. What can you do to reduce the chatter, change your pressure plate and fork setup to allow for a longer engagement ( modulation ) change the weight of the pressure plate, ( engagment event ). Add more pucks to reduce the point loading. Change to a different material, organic in nature. Unless your putting out more then 2x your OEM torque you don’t need to move to anything to do with ceramic… If and when you do get to the point where you do need one… do your self a HUGE favor and get a carbon disk… just avoid ceramic unless ou plan to race the car all the time.
if your interested in what the carbon clutches are like I am ordering two Exedy hyper Carbon Triples next week and should have them in like… 6 weeks… grr.
the other option is the D-core, a new clutch/Flywheel combo from Exedy… has a very very broad modulation range with reduced chatter and gear noise transferr.
god everyone shut the fuck up
we are way way way overthinking this simple issue
if you beat the shit out of your car then get a dirty dirty clutch. no one here beats their car except maybe jessee that i know of that really rapes clutches. these are the people that should have a 3puck unsprung dutty pressure plate clutch. because if you slip when you clutch kick you will kil lthe clutch fast
otherwise just go by the ratings the manufactures offer. the only concern is durability. i hear about spec clutches blowing up and crazy shit like that. thats not becasue of hte material they use or anything you could predetermine but looking at the material list
no.
its because they suck at life
yes.
so.
research
get a clutch that doenst suck at life that can handle the tq you will produce
if you rape your car
get a clutch that will rape your left leg
that is all
thank you