You’ve always had a way with words Sammy 
I told him, that I’m not trying to be an asshole, but having me hold on to the car for so long while I could have been actively trying to sell it makes him lose the deposit, end of story. I told him that I’d still sell it to him, but he’s not getting anything back from me.
I’m waiting for him to come up with his excuse.
slippery slope …
if you toss him $10 or $100, you’ve set a precedent that he has a right to getting money back, now stacking the deck in his favor should things go to court.
just like if i walk into YOUR house and injure myself in some retarded way, like slamming a door on my hand, if you say “well the door is heavy, so its sorta my fault” and pay $100 out of my $1000 in medical bills, whats to stop me from taking you to court and saying “its 100% his falt and hes just trying to shut me up with a pitifully small payment”
Cliffs: in for a penny, in for a pound, either refund all of it or tell him to GTFO, its not your fault, and the only reason to refund anything is because “you want to be nice” … but i think waiting for 3+ months is enough nice-ness
good point :tup:
Take this as a hard lesson learned. Send the money back. Next time, make it clear that any deposits are non-refundable :ham:
Send the money now. If you decide to play hardball, you had better PRAY that no one can find your ebay ad and this kid didn’t keep any form of communication between you because now you are talking about a federal crime (due to the method of payment). Fraud conducted through the federal postal system is not taken lightly.
You would think so :shrug:
i dont know if this is entirely correct, rick… when i studied the UCC, we came up with case studies like this, and i dont think the buyer has any recourse in a situation like this. jordan, if you really want to find the right answer, talk to a family friend (if you have one) that is a lawyer.
i fail to see the fraud here, he attempted to sell the car and the BUYER never came through to finish the deal
if it was the SELLER who wouldn’t complete the deal, then i would agree, but thats not the case here
and if he resells the car on ebay and it goes for LESS then the original sale price, the old buyer REALLY has no ground to stand on, because it can be argued that the seller lost money on the deal
best bet: resell car
-if it goes for the same amount (or more)as the old sale, refund old deposit
-if it goes for anything less then what he still owes on car, keep his deposit
-if it goes for anything in between, partial refund, which in this case wouldnt be a slippery slope, because you have a new sale price to back you up in court
THE ONLY PERSON RIGHT IN THIS WHOLE ENTIRE THREAD IS RX3.
unfortunately for you, unless you did state to him it is NON REFUNDABLE, he CAN sue you for it. and im positive he knows this, because he sent it through the mail, WHICH IS A FEDERAL CRIME IF YOU DONT SENT IT BACK. Idk where these other people are getting these half assed responses. the court doesnt give a FUCK about you “losing money on the deal”, “garage space and storing the car for 3 months” or what the fuck ever these kids are telling you, they dont know what the fuck they are talking about.
Yea it sucks. But I PROMISE you going in front of a judge and saying “WELL I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE POINT OF A DEPOSIT” is going to get you nowhere but laughed at, and most likely quite some time in jail due to the fed charge of robbing him through the USPS.
and before any of these people with the horrible advice try to disprove me/rx3, look up federal law called THEFT BY DECEPTION. Due to the fact that you did NOT tell him it was a non-refundable deposit, he can press these criminal charges against you, along with suing you for the money, and also along with the fed case you’re going to receive for using USPS. NEVER use usps for shit like this its a mess.
and last i checked, fed cases were a minimum of 10 years. period. maybe not for shit like this on second though, but fed cases carry a mandatory-minimum. so yea man, you have no leverage here, and are looking at thousands in lawyers fees to hopefully get you off with just a couple years in the fed prison, for $500? send the shit back.
im glad that you referenced sections of the UCC in your explanation. :bloated:
first things first, i HIGHLY doubt 500 bucks would ever even be a blip on the radar as far as “fed cases” are concerned.
second of all, he didn’t commit theft by deception. not even close.
third, the whole point of a deposit is to prevent a seller from selling out from under the buyer prior to the buyer procuring the remaining funds. therefore, the deposit is only refundable if the seller does not complete his side of the transaction (in this case, provide the car materially as advertised). the buyer has no recourse if he/she does not uphold their side of the transaction. THE NON REFUNDABLE NATURE OF A DEPOSIT IN A PRIVATE PARTY CAR SALE TRANSACTION IS IMPLIED, AND DOES NOT NEED TO BE STATED. this is just simple logic here.
:lolham: at your outrageous uneducated rant
If im not mistaken he would have to come here to small claims court then right?Sounds like that wouldnt happen if he hasent come with the money yet.
Say you used the money he sent to pay for storage.The money is spent.
All it takes is a phone call to the postal police/investigators and filling out of the proper forms to turn this into a “blip”.
This is irrelevant. The buyer paid with a FEDERAL money transaction (re: US Postal Money Order). Intent has no relevance, only that the post office is involved (federal tender, sent by federal postal service). This places it in the hands of the FEDS, and is a federal crime if the U.S. Postal Service investigates and finds fault (assuming the other party makes the proper calls/fills out the paperwork). ALL CLAIMS are investigated when postal money orders are involved!
That is only true IF IT IS IN WRITING. Yes that is the intent, but unless it was in writing, no small claims court (or any court) would rule in your favor. Because the terms of the “deposit” were not put in writing, basically if no goods/service was rendered, you are not entitled to the money. Again, if this person has any decent records, and knows the procedure, you will be fucked.
Unless you have documented proof that the money was spent for storage related to the car, you will be liable for the $$$ if he comes calling with a small claims suit. Yes for $500 he may have to go to small claims court (I can’t remember the cutoff in dollars for small claims and regular court), but if the Postal Investigators (assuming he followed through) investigate and side with him (they will provide documentaion to him) you are FUCKED when you show up in front of that judge.
But let’s just forget all the legality for the moment.
If you were in the same situation, you would want the guy to return your funds. Do unto others.
You didn’t put it in writing. Your bad. Live and learn for next time.
HE (the seller) is dumber than a bag of rocks, but apparently not dumb enough to use paypal, certified bank check or any other form of currency transfer that would allow you a loophole to “play stupid” and keep his money.
HE USED A POSTAL MONEY ORDER.
Give him the money back.
Fuck that, keep the money.He shouldnt have bought it banking on a claims check.
in all honesty, if i had put a deposit down on a car, dragged my feet to complete the transaction, and then ultimately failed to do so, i would probably ask for my money back with the expectation that i wouldnt get anything.
i think this is getting blown out of proportion. if jordan knows a lawyer, he should just consult with that person. obviously there are conflicting opinions.
This is very simple. You cannot keep his money. If you don’t have a contract, then you have no right to hold on to his funds. If you do have a contract, then there is a written agreement. Verbal agreements are not valid in new york state, so even if you told him it was non-refundable and never had a signed contract…he’s still getting his money back.
It’s not his fault you decided to close the sale with a measley $500 deposit or that you waited on his bullshit for 5 months before speaking up.
That deposit was his security that you wouldn’t sell the car on him.
You sell the car to him, you keep the money. Plain and simple.
Have you sold the car to him? NO. Therefore it’s not your money.
:smash2:
I’m very much on the fence about something like this. Although, if it were me, I would have (as I always have in the past) made it BLATANTLY CLEAR that the deposit was non-refundable, or refundable. Especially, when you don’t even know the seller. You REALLY need to CYA, and NOT just trust strangers.
um sorry dude, you’re wrong. if the guy asks for his money back, and this dude says no, it is theft by deception… as where the man that gave the deposit was never informed it was non-refundable, therefore he was deceived in the fact that unless otherwise stated in a contractual agreement that his money was not to be refunded which is the LAW if you want to keep the deposit, he is legally entitled to his money.
and because he did use USPS for the monetary transaction, it is a case on the federal level, REGARDLESS of the amount of money. sorry once again.
Its basically your word against his now.
Ebay’s auction cache only lasts 90 days.
Where is the proof that an auction even existed? .
Did the money order have the auction number on it? I think the guy is pretty much SOL.
The money order is the proof. Even if it didn’t have the auction number on it, he has PROOF OF MONEY TRANSACTION. If he doesn’t have the goods, then he can request his money back unless some form of WRITTEN agreement was made concerning said money.
Nothing in writing? NO CASE FOR KEEPING THE MONEY. It would be harder to prove had he paid in cash, but if there is ANY papertrail, you are screwed if you can’t prove goods/service rendered.
The fact that it is a POSTAL MONEY ORDER makes it that much more pertinent that you RETURN THE MONEY. You do not want to fuck with the feds if the wheels get turning on this. You can try to be shady all you want, but don’t say you weren’t warned when you go to jail. Is $500 worth it?
Any lawyer will tell you the same thing. You are screwed if you don’t have it in writing with signature.
Real talk.
Jordan, do whatever you want, but I would STRONGLY advise you to give the money back unless you have documented and signed proof that the deposit was “non-refundable”.
X2. thank you.
or that the “non refundable” terms were included in your ebay auction (which is legal/binding).