Most of the people I know who now have DWI’s are the ones who ragged on me growing up for “being a hermit” or “not being in with the popular kids”. Guess what? Most of them have a shitty job, a small apartment/live at home, have a bad record and still continue to party. They are still living like they are in high school, they hang out with the same shitty crew and they breed bad news.
I never said it wouldn’t! I just said at what level does the punishment stop having an effect. I’ve agreed with you every time you said it would reduce it, I’m just arguing how much will it reduce it and what is the cost to have that reduction.
So the other issue you have is with any science behind BAC and impairment levels.
I was trying to google and find out info on how this was determined…Nothing yet however.
I agree with 97Formula about the affect on society. The government loves this idea because then we as whole rely on them more and it is job security. We need laws that involve people being punished and punished properly. Not justifying more police on the streets. They pass this bill, then they need more cops to handle all the people they are pulling over and giving tickets to and arresting and it just isn’t a good system.
So we are arguing about the % of reduction 
I am willing to bet that at least 50% of these are knocked down to parking tickets and surcharges in order for the court to make out.
As an addendum to everything being said here, and most of you coming at it from a WNY view…
here in UT… DWI is right under murder… no shit. A 2nd DWI you can get more time then if you kidnap and rape someone. I’m not talking accident while drunk, I’m just talking a few too many beers and driving home. Plea deals are almost non existent, 1 year mandatory loss of license (and no provisional here!) Average cost for a first time DWI is in the 10-12k range. And you are shunned by the dominate society; I mean domestic violence is looked upon as a lesser crime.
Not to mention the cops who will arrest you for DWI if you have ANY alcohol, not 0.08, not 0.05, if you blow a 0.02 they will arrest you, fudge the paperwork and charge you.
And guess what… you want to talk about ruining lives, no license = no job, typically shunned by your family, booted out of church, etc. You’re almost better off being a child molester here.
But guess what… it still happens! Yes, at a lower rate than the national average… but this state also has the lowest rate of non-drinkers in the US so it better be below average seeing something like 80% of the state are non-drinkers.
Compare Utahs murder rate vs deaths related to DWI?
Cops being shitty is an entirely different debate and I agree there are plenty of them out there.
ROI if you want to get technical. What’s my return on investment. 1 life = how much $$ + what societal effects
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I’m talking how society views it and punishments for crimes.
And DWI rate Vs DWI death rate are 2 VERY different things. DWI death is a handful a year, DWI rate is significant.
This may get you started:
…Overall the average American, age 25 or older, made roughly $32,000 per year…
Oh and you mentioned Utah has extremely strict DWI laws???
Oddly enough Utah is #1 for LOWEST DRUNK DRIVING DEATHS IN U.S.
They also had 54 murders in 2011 and 39 DWI deaths 
i’ll admit that i did have a DUI (PA equivalent to NYS DWI) several years ago. it is definitely the stupidest thing i have done in my life up until this point but at no time during the commission of that DUI was anyone at great risk of death or destruction due to my actions. i probably very easily had driven above the legal limit more than 80x before that one but there were very many times that i did not drive because i knew i had had too much to drink to be driving. i got caught because of where i was not what i was doing.
that said it was a huge wake up call for me. i didn’t feel bad because of the supposed risk i had put the public at, because i knew i had not increased that risk very much at all. it was a wake up call because it cost me a shitload of money and i had been living paycheck to paycheck at that point not really worrying about anything else.
i’ve never drank and drove with anything but the most insignificant BAC since that time, not because i’m worried about my moral fortitude, but because it was expensive and a big pain in the ass at the time.
i only say this because it is easy to demonize the DWI crowd, but there are certainly those in it that are not deserving of the moral baggage that gets heaped on it. they broke the law it doesn’t necessarily make them responsible for the deaths of thousands…and by driving the limit down lower we are only going to catch more people in a crime and get very little results in terms of reductions in fatalities.
I could use the airline model, which I believe last time I read it was something like $6 million per person on average.
Utah has nation’s lowest rate of underage drinking
Utah has the lowest rate of underage drinking in the nation, according to the results of a new study by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. However, those who work with teens and substance abuse say there is still room for improvement.
Only 14.3 percent of Utah’s 12- to 20-year-olds consumed alcohol in the last month, according to the survey. That compares to 26.6 percent nationwide.
I am wiling to bet this has something to do with it…
They’re also the lowest for % of population who consume alcohol! I mean come on, Mormon’s don’t drink and they make up 90%+ of the population of this state.
edit - that’s like saying that Florida is has the lowest rate of snowmobile accidents in the US… Of course they do, how many people really ride snowmobiles in FL?
UT is probably the lowest in many “vice crimes”…but do we want the county to look socially like Utah? probably not.
Also have some of the easiest means of getting a fire arm with some of the lowest figures on deaths related to them. lol
After living her 25 months almost exactly… I’m COUNTING THE DAYS until I’m done with school so we can get out of here! If the US was all like here society wise, I’d be gone in a heartbeat.
As for vice crimes, Meth and Prescription drug use run RAMPANT here, worse than anywhere else I’ve been or lived. Not to mention kids having kids… teen pregnancy rates, and having 3 kids by the time you’re 20 is pretty normal here. Girls and Mother issues, the rebellion from teenagers, etc. This is a place that has it’s issues, and it’s worse than the stats would lead you to believe as the society has a complete hush-hush and talk behind your back/bury everything mentality.
:word: Or if you’re sober, run a red light, and plow someone obeying traffic laws with a BAC, not only is that an alcohol-related incident, but the other guy will probably be deemed at fault.
I know a guy that has driven home over the legal limit probably at least 500 times if I had to guess. Never hit anything, come close to hitting anything when I’ve been with him, drives the speed limit and stays in the right lane. When he’s actually drunk I’ve seen him hand over the keys or take a cab, but that’s definitely not a .05, or .08. Never gotten a DWI because he’s never given the police a reason to pull him over.
Lumping someone like him on his way home in with the guy driving the wrong way on the 33 and head-oning people, in a one-size-fits-all approach as the worst people in the world is asinine. Throwing the book at this guy would do nothing but fuck up his life and cost the state lots of money.
BTW I don’t actually care I just enjoy debating random topics