And the aviation experts come out of the wood work in this thread :lol:
Just listened to the entire air traffic control tape and took some notes.
ATC = air traffic control.
ATCBUF = local buffalo tower.
3407 = flight that went down.
3:55 - ATC initial contact with 3407, cleared approach, runway 23, currently at 11000 feet.
8:45 - ATC clears 3407 for decent to 4000, 3407 confirms.
9:15 - ATC confirms 3407 cleared for decent to 4000.
12:20 - ATC clears 3407 for decent to 2300, 3407 confirms.
12:40 - ATC clears 3407 to heading 330, 3407 confirms.
14:05 - ATC clears 3407 to heading 310, 3407 confirms.
15:10 - ATC advises 3407 they are 3 miles from next correction, maintain 2300, 3407 confirms.
16:01 - ATC hands 3407 over to Buffalo tower on frequency 120.5, 3407 confirms.
17:20 - ATCBUF tries to makes initial contact with 3407, ATCBUF advises they are on approach. No confirmation from 3407.
17:35 - ATCBUF requests Delta 1998 look off right side for a dash 8 (type of plane for 3407), should be about 5 miles out at about 2300 feet.
17:41 - Delta 1998 reports negative visual contact.
17:48 - ATCBUF calls to 3407.
18:55 - Northwest 920 requests continous climb due to icing conditions.
19:00 - ATC confirms 920’s climb request to 10000 to escape icing.
19:34 - ATC asks Delta 1998 if they have VFR conditions.
19:36 - Delta 1998 replies negative, they are IMC.
- VFR means visual flight rules, aka, pilots can judge altitude and heading by sight line.
- IMC means instrument meteorlogical conditions, aka, flighting by instruments because weather prevents visual navigation.
- ATC is most likely looking for someone to get a visual status on 3407 at this point. Stress can be heard in the voice of BUFATC.
20:14 BUFATC again tries to make contact with 3407
20:27 BUFATC advises landline to contact Akron/Clarence state police or sheriff’s department to “find if anything is on the ground”. Advises aircraft was 5 miles out and all of a sudden they have no response from the aircraft.
20:45 ATC advises aircraft was over the marker and they are not talking to them now.
21:00 ATC asks Delta 1998 about any icing where they are.
21:05 Delta 1998 advises they picked up some on the decent from 6500 to 3500 but do not appear to be building any more.
21:20 ATC advises Delta 1998 that there will be a delay, expect to hold.
21:34 ATC advises Delta 1998 to climb and maintain 4000, turn left to 270.
21:45 ATC advises someone he will get back to them, “apparently we have an emergency”.
22:15 ATC advises 1998 to maintain 3000 instead of 4000.
22:50 ATC advises K1452 they will be bringing them in shortly.
22:58 K1452 advises they have been picking up ice for a while, pilot sounds shaken.
23:30 ATC advises 1998 to decend to 2300 at their discretion.
23:58 ATC advises all aircraft this frequency that they did have a dash 8 over the marker that did not make the airport. Advises 1998 that he is bring him in on the approach, all green.
25:00 ATC asks 1998 about ice. Doesn’t appear to be building, but have about 1/4 inch from decent.
24:20 K1452 reports picking up ice for last 10 minutes.
25:28 ATC says something about rime ice reported.
25:40 K1452 is really getting worried about their ice, you can tell they want ATC to get them down ASAP.
27:05 K1452 reports that at 2300 ice is starting to come off windscreen.
27:15 Back and forth between ATC and K1452 about 2300 seeming to be a good altitude to clear the icing.
27:28 ATC advises another flight to decend to 2300 to clear icing.
28:06 ATC thanks K1452 for help.
28:13 K1452 asks ATC if they found Colgan (3407).
28:15 ATC advises “unfortunately they went down over marker at clump”.
Sounds like someone at ATC deserves some thanks today for keep their heads and quickly working with 1998 and 1452 to find an altitude where the inbound planes could shed that ice.
Last night witnesses said the plane was on fire in the air and not sounding normal.
I haven’t heard any mention of birds yet.(?)
WGR just reported both black boxes have been recovered.
Interested to hear what they find on them.
you need to get a lot of “FACTS” straight… we all do.
omg you guys figured it out, call the feds and link em!
1 of your friends joined the group Supporters of Continental Air 3407 Crash in Buffalo, NY.
I would imagine they could have picked a better name for this FB group?
That is the key right there. Hopefully they are totally functional.
Rime ice acculumates on the leading edges of the wings, tail and nose (small radius leading edges)
All 14cfr part 121 aircraft are certified for “known ice” conditons. They have equipment (leading edge boots, leading edge heat, propeller de-ice fluid, prop de-ice heat, pitot/static port heaters…) that can handle iceing. If any of these systems fail, its an automatic EMERGENCY that will be declared, and its effects take time to accumulate. You don’t just fly around with ice building on your leading edges.
If there was icing:
Ice causes airflow seperation at angles lower than the normal critical angle of attack
This could cause the aircraft to stall at higher than normal aisrpeeds.
Deployment of flaps could “steal” airflow from the tail, causing it to stall at a higher airspeed than normal.
Either aerodynamic stall could cause a very rapid drop of the nose (assuming it is loaded nose heavy as it should be)
If the wings stalled, it could also involve a severe stall/spin situation
These situations would take 100 percent of the pilots attention, a radio call would not be your priority when your at 1,500 feet and looking straight down.
These aircraft have 3 electrical systems, communication was not lost.
I love all the news interviews of people saying that the airplane was sputtering (turbines don’t sputter, and if it was compressor stalling it pops like a shotgun or machine gun) and people that comment on the landing gear being up or down, when it was pitch black, and likley they were too busy thinking “OH FUCK” than “hey, is his landing gear up?”.
I guess being a pilot, the lack of information by people trying to sound smart is frustrating.
Has anyone heard who got killed on the ground? Was he/she from the house where the 2 women were injured?
:lol: you know everything!
Nice post JayS. I listened but its interesting to read it all.
Last report I saw, it was the “guy” of the house that got crashed into…
it was the guy who lived there, the woman was out shopping with her daughter.
That’s the ultimate “live your life, you never know when it’s going to end” example. Here you’re sitting in your house relaxing, probably getting ready for bed, then bam. Plane crashes into and almost immediately incinerates it.
No…but from a factual comment perspective…I would believe n20junkie over MOBOOSTS Tim Hortons and Ingram experience…
^ Exactly why I said I really don’t care what some witnesses on the ground had to say. Listening to the ATC tape it’s pretty clear icing was a serious issue last night. Does that mean it’s why 3407 went down, no. But hearing 3 pilots describe ice buildup, one of them getting very concerned about it, means a hell of a lot more to me than some idiot on the ground with no aeronatutical experience looking up at the dark sky telling me the landing gear was up/down or the engines “didn’t sound right”.
Ok then explain the loss of contact from the tower??? Those points were meant to go hand in hand.
LOL
Lol… I thought I did an ok job in explaining that these were FAR FROM FACTS and rather just an opinion.
Lol
I believe it was the father in the family who perished inside of the house.
Here is more on turboprop safety from that CNN link.
Fairly certain we (my company) builds some componentry for the -8.
I love all the news interviews of people saying that the airplane was sputtering
Yeah, that made me blink. A piston-engine plane would “sputter”.
Again, see my post in regards to Lafengas. God you people really read between the lines. How did that come of anything more than a perspective. I SAID RIGHT IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH “IM FAR FROM AN AVIATION GUY”, you douche!