1500’ in ideal conditions… not with ice buildup on the wings… sadly they didn’t have a chance…
I’m interested to know whether it was either the Icing System failed, or that it was the “???” Ice that just builds up way too fast and the Icing system couldn’t handle it. I’m thinking the later, but only the final report will be able to tell.
whatever it is; May everyone who perished rest in peace; and for everyone left behind that they find peace eventually with this tragedy.
RIP!!! 
Just got back from the area, closest you can get is Maple/Goodrich, and from that intersection there is a house blocking the entire scene… Only way to get in is if you live there
How did they know that the windshields were covered in ice?
Cockpit Voice Recorder. It explains why they didn’t know the leading edges were covered in a heavy rime ice layer.
Some Of this is being reposted but its just to gather the information in a tighter spot.
Before and durring comparison.
http://media.washingtontimes.com/media/img/photos/2009/02/13/Plane_In_To_Home_Kwed.jpg
Air Traffic Control recording
http://event.liveatc.net/kbuf/KBUF-Feb-13-2009-0300Z.mp3
Picture of the exact plane and information about the plane
http://www.airframes.org/reg/n200wq
http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6478793&nseq=0
A Discussion by people that know a lot more then most of us
http://discussions.flightaware.com/viewtopic.php?t=7750&sid=e2e49e7a7df9f7e2761e02ed00d19faa
Flight activity log
I think the only thing we can completely rule out is age as noted by the date of production on the information page. It was less then a year old plane.
Personal reflections on the situation
This is just one of those events no matter where it happened, that guy on the ground was singled out. Whether it was fate or completely random incident. just has to make you think. The guy in his house was just kickin’ back at home, maybe just sitting back watching TV maybe grabbing a snack. Then all of a sudden BOOM, its all over. He was in the comfort and safety of his own home then nothing. He didn’t do something dumb that got him hurt, he wasn’t speeding, wasn’t skydiving, wasn’t playing with explosives, wasn’t doing anything but relaxing in his own home. Sure shit like this happens all the time and we always say “damn that sucks I’m gonna live life to the fullest” and then a week later they are back in the same routine. Everyone that has taken this to heart probably knows this is the case. But hell make this a fun week, enjoy what there is in life. Do something exciting while its still fresh. Come back with a story to tell, or do something private for yourself. But damn check something off your to do list while you still have motivation from one of the surprises we get every once in a while to remind us just how quickly it can come to an end.
Much sympathy out to the loved ones that lost someone in this completely freak accident. Especially to the two that went out for a while to come home to nothing. They lost their home, everything in it, and a loved one.
yea based on the weather & other flights chatter, icing was kind of a forgone conclusion.
but that, that sucks. would it be fair to say that by the time the crew comprehended what was going on it was effectively too late?
at least they went quickly.
Yes, it takes a milisecond to go from straight and level flight into a spin. It literally “Snaps” and then you have to wait until it stabilized to get it out. Stabilization takes 500 feet in a tiny plane, probably 2,000 feet in a big one. Its such a dangerous maneuver, many planes cannot do it, and NEVER in larger twins. Commercial planes, not even tested for it.
Remember, you will have no stall warning horn, as the ice have cause the stall at different than normal conditions because of the ice created aerodynamics.
This is a larger plane doing a spin. 3407 could do this with normal airspeeds and pitch attitude. In a clean, light plane you have to pitch up to do this so that it results in a controlable spin.
King schools lesson on stalls and spins
Remember, that man has EVERY license that the FAA offeres. He might sound like a 70s teacher, he knows his shit.
Another one, this time in a light airplane. I do these routinely so that I keep my skills up.
Think about not being able to look outside, and listen to him talking as he explains how the instruments will read wrong. Think that they had no ability to see threw the iced over windscreen at night.
that last vid, and the overall concept…
even in something as light as those lil guys
^^that is ridiculous
Went earlier and got turned arround at goodrich, then found a way around, but nothing i could see. kinda sounded lick they were hacking things up.
I just learned that my father in-law was scheduled to be on that flight to return home from a business trip to Jersey, his plan changed the day before.
Lets just say my in-laws are a bit shaken by the possibility.
2 blocks east and it would have hit the lumbar yard we get most of our supplies from, Mosher Lumber, Inc 6035 Railroad Street Clarence Center. I know my boss is over there from time to time, was a couple weeks ago actually, that area is so tightly packed too.
When they first showed the map I didn’t hear the name of the street and my stomach sank because the big star they had pretty much encompassed the whole area.
I almost lost my dinner when the guy at one of the press conferences said they will use DNA and “brain stems” to identify some victims.
Truly a sad day.
You think your day was bad when you heard it, imagine the people there right now actually doing it. I have been to aircraft wreck sites over the years. Its something that you wish with all you have that you could forget.
truth.
I couldn’t agree more. As a member of the crash recovery team for the AF in Pittsburgh, I was at the crash site in Somerset on 9/11. I’ll never forget some of the things I saw and it certainly affects me. Don’t go over there!
My parents live 150’ from there in Clarence Center and I picked them up on Friday at noon to drive them to the airport for a vacation.
Not a great couple of days for me.
wow… those windows put out some serious heat too…
Mother nature is stronger than any de-ice system. Most aircraft are not certified in “heavy” icing conditions. Just “known” ice is the certification. I have seen windscreens overwhelmed with ice, and yes they do get dam hot. But its a math formula like all others. It puts out x of heat, its getting with y of requirement. If the equasion comes out in the negative, then your windscreen is getting a layer of the bad stuff.
I’m just saying windows have been melted on the ground…
Some audio clips of the dispatch when it first was called out if anyone wants to listen.