I can see the G6’s doing quite well. They’re finally offering a stick in the Grand Prix segment.
This is GM’s problem:
something has to take out the dodge v8 4 doors
way too many brands, way to many mediocre cars. Kill a couple brands, and build some decent cars instead of junk. The economy cars from toyota are miles ahead of cobalt or aveo.
A higher powered 4 door is perfect for fat middle aged guys like me with kids, and i would consider buying one of those if was an American car.
The pGTO failed because
- It looks like a cavilier/sunbird
- $34000 vs $26000 for a Mustang
- It’s a foreign car and people want a GTO don’t want a pGTO made in another country
- The 04’s were heavy slow slugs, don’t care how much faster the 05-06’s are, first impression last
- Looked too different from the concept, like most GM’s
So how many mustang GT’s run 13.5’s stock?
Personaly i like the idea. The car it self looks nice and everyone needs to sell a high performance sedan. there’s a decent sized market of people who pass up the gto’s and corvettes because a coupe just can’t accomidate their life style. not to mention in most cases adding 2 extra doors for some reason lowers insurence.
and just because it’s the same engine doesn’t really devalue the corvette because just like the gto stock for stock the corvette makes more power.
the 06 wrx and sti share the exact same motor minus the cylinder head itself. does that take away from the the sti’s stature, no there’s alot more to it then that, that still makes it more desirable.
Actually, GTO and Corvette are both rated 400/400 HP/TQ stock. But, the vette weighs considerably less, with wider drive wheels, so it will be faster.
GTO is more practical for DD use…i the GTO is growing on me…not a huge GM guy but it would be fun to scoot around in…and I agree GM has too many brands with too similar models in a few brands…
I’m not sure having multiple brands selling the same platform is such a bad idea. People are trying to argue that they shouldn’t do it and should just concentrate on building better cars, but the real design challenge comes from building the platform, not the body you then slap on that platform.
And lets face it, someone who might not buy a Pontiac Soltice might buy a Saturn Sky. GM didn’t invest much creating the Sky from the platform they already have, and there’s a sale they wouldn’t have otherwise had.
And lets face it, GM isn’t the only one to multi-brand.
Toyota->Lexus->Scion
Nissan->Infinity
Audi->VW
Honda->Acura
Sure, GM has the most:
Chevrolet->GMC->Pontiac->Buick->Cadillac->Saturn and the bastard step children Saab and Hummer.
But, look on the roads, people are driving all of those brands. And if the platforms under the skin are shared there wasn’t THAT much R&D that went into creating the spinoffs. Besides that, looking at the brands they have left I can see a place in their lineup for each of them. Olds was the one that didn’t really have it’s own image, and now it’s gone.
Basically, I think they just need better platforms. But to do that they have to trim costs, and being stuck 3k+ in the hole on each car because of unions costs isn’t a good place to start from.
But the difference is when you buy a Lexus you’re getting a lot more than what you get in the Toyota counter part, it’s almost a totally different car…
This is especially true with Acura…the difference between the RSX and Civic is night and say…same w/ the TSX and Accord
When you buy an Envoy it’s the exact same thing as a Trail Blazer
I don’t care if you’re using the same platform over and over…but don’t sell the same car w/ a different badge
Yeah, they need to do more to differentiate the brands. My friend has a Trailblazer, my boss has an Envoy, and while the Envoy is nicer they are too similar.
But, they might be heading in the right direction. The Soltice and Sky are very different.
Then you look at the Ion/Cobalt and think maybe they’re not.
But lets not forget, when you buy a Lexus vs a Toyota you’re paying a serious premium there, so they better be very different. The premium between a Trailblazer and Envoy isn’t that much.
Better example, Tahoe vs Escalade. Same platform, but the caddy is MUCH different, just like the difference between a Toyota and a Lexus.
Exactly…if you’re going to have the same car at the same price all you’re doing is wasting money…either make it a better version or don’t make it.
Are the Tahoe and Escalade drastically different?
No, not really: Although this is MUCH MUCH better than before, I think GM is going in the right direction w/ Caddy
Lexus v. Toyota
same number or more than 04 pGTO’s. I’m sure tehere a re a few o4 pGTO’s taht do it, but like the 99+ stangs they ar’t all that common. AND teh pGto cost $10K more. and 05+ stangs run that routinly wit a half way decent driver, again, for a whole lot less $$$
different dashboard, just like the caddy vs chevy, same steering wheel, different guages just like caddy vs chevy, point failed
you’re comparing apples to oranges. The stang is a lower quality fit, finish, ride, interior, etc, F-body style. The GTO is a completely different class of car. Drive both back to back and you’ll see. Also, the 2004’s stickered for $31k, and routinely had money knocked off, to the point where it was almost the same price. Have you ever ridden in both back to back? the 04 GTO is really more comparable with a G35 coupe or M3 than a mustang in terms of the car itself.