So i was just watching on the NHL network bout the top 10 playoff goal scorers of the 90’s and they had some early 90’s plays shown, and watching the goalies… it was horrible… they were pretty much all stand up style, horrible lateral movement and it got me to thinking…
every one says how great gretzky was, one of the most prolific goal scorers of all time… but look what he had to shoot against…
how well do you think gretzky, howe, and others like that would back in the day if the goalies were as able as they are now, say a miller or osgood…
personally i dont think you can compare the crosby’s and ovechkins with prior hockey heros cause the game has changed so much… not taking away from their skill, but i honestly think the current greats are actually better
there’s no question the game has changed a ton. every player in the league is extremely gifted and has loads of talent. there is so much new technology, better equipment, more knowledge about the game. it’s a more well rounded, quality game now.
however, gretzky was untouchable. he doesn’t have a ton of highlight reel moves/goals/passes, but his hockey sense was untouchable. he knew exactly how every play would develop, where every player would be. he made everyone around him better, look at the stats for all of the teams he played with. totally inflated numbers from players like kurri, tikkanen, robitaille, sandstrom, granato, etc…these guys blew up when they played with gretzky.
he scored 200 points like 4 times or something ridiculous. i don’t care how much better everyone is now, no one will ever even smell 200 again. i doubt we’ll see anyone get 150 again. there’s no one close to gretzky. he has over 2800 points. almost 1000 more than anyone else. 1000 points more…
my thing is… youre right… no one will get to 200 again… but i dont think its cause of skill of the scorer… i think its cause of the skill of goalies, and different types of defensive plays…
gretzky was king, but what made him king, the fact that he could, yes, see the play develop, but he could skate around the likes of everyone and score on a side to side move. goalie movement was terrible back then, and it was a HUGE disadvantage to them, favoring the goal scorer way more
so then how come every other team back then didn’t have a 200 pt scorer? your theory holds SOME truth, because yes things have changed, but i think your looking way too far into this in the big picture.
yeah, because they didn’t make the nets bigger after the year without hockey :rolls eyes:
Also you said miller and osgood, hahahahaha.
Neuither one of them is that great at thier position.
Osgood > Miller
Infact most of the league > miller.
Miller just dosen’t have the hockey sense yett.
Years of NHL level goaltending will make up for that.
im not taking anything away from gretzky at all… he was incredible for his time… BUT, if you look at how he got a lot of his points, it was pretty easy shots. a lot of the time the goalie didnt even go down on the shot to take away the lower portion of the net, also, from his behind the net set ups, the goalie was, most of the time, sitting so deep into the net, he didnt really take up much angle
im not saying he didnt have pretty goals, but i really think that the goaltending back in the day really helped him… if he played now… i dont see him doing the same as he did before…
watch this…
this is just a lil highlight reel of him… notice how a lot of his goals are cause the goalie commited WAY too early, just had terrible positioning or flopped around…
now watch miller… ive always liked him cause of his mobility and positioning
i know ill get flamed for saying this… but i really dont think gretz would have any where near the same numbers he did back in the day if he played currently…
granted it was said before that time evolves players into what they are now… 20 yrs from now i cant even imagine how scary good theyre gonna be… but to me, you almost cant compare the past stars to the new superstars cause of how much has changed
wow… i just read your post… i mentioned miller and osgood cause they both have INCREIDBLE skill but in different ways… something which, im sure you have no idea about… when you strap on the pads and get on the ice, then you can talk bout whos shitty…
when you get your mask cracked from a slapshot, or get muscles permantly damaged from shots, THROUGH pads, come talk to me… until then, try not to injure yourself flipping on the NHL network
i understand what your saying, i’m not denying that it was different.
BUT by your same arguement, then why weren’t there more players pacing him? he still dominated his era. and don’t forget skaters have also gotten better equipment/composite sticks too since then
i think every generation has its one stand out that just blows everyone away… you had richard, howe, gretzky, lemieux, now you have multiple players in the same time… crosby(hate it or not, hes good) malkin, ovechkin
gretz dominated in his era, and was more in the light cause there wasnt anyone that could even keep up… but now its different cause you have a couple super superstars that are tearing it up WHILE playing with the level thats out here now…
to me if someone breaks gretzkys record now… theyve done WAY more to get it IMO.
someone will, and to me, then it will be more impressive cause of trap style systems, 6’7’’ 250 lb defensemen, elite goalies…
Honestly, I disagree fully. Even in the mid-late 90’s when goaltenders styles were changing, and becoming more sound, Gretzky could still make people look like fools on the ice.
Lemieux scored 160 points in 1992-93, his last full season before the dawn of the obstruction era. Super Mario played just 22 games in '93-94 and missed the entire '94-95 season while undergoing cancer treatment.
In the 1992-93 and '93-94 seasons, Recchi scored 230 points, Roenick had back-to-back 107-point seasons, Mogilny totaled 206 points and Sundin finished with 199 points.
just to make it clear, im not detracting from gretz’s numbers… he was amazing and will go down as one of, if not arguably the, greatest of all time… but if you see the other side of it… eh…
he always becomes the main source cause he was so dominating…
the main point im trying to say is… the game was so wide open back then, and it was a goal scorers game… the defense, and goalies werent what they are today, and i think that helped inflate his, and others, numbers to the point that you have to question alil bit, can you really compare them with the superstars we have today
Osgood knows the game, he’s been around a long time.
Miller isn’t that good, has never been that good… ask anyone not from buffalo.
The city is on his dick, anyone remember his rookie season? I seen him give up 4 goals on 5 shots against the islanders, in person sitting on the goal line.
He’s young, you can’t even BEGIN to compare a young goalies hockey sense, to a vetern goalies hockey sense.
Thats the point I was making.
Thats like saying he has equal hockey sense to that of ROY or Belfour(in his prime)
That’s just not the case and not happening.
Stop blowing him because hes a buffalo player.
If he was on the Sen’s you people would have had hsi head on a STAKE for the mistakes he makes in net.
sorry but osgood is NOT as good as your making him out to be. he plays on a good TEAM which makes him look pretty good when he only faces 17 shots a game remember when he played for the islanders? didn’t think so, those were some forgotten times
remember when he played for the islanders? didn’t think so, those were some forgotten times