We all know that we are supposed to follow the law to a tee, but that isn’t what happens in court. You are telling a story to people, these people aren’t necessarily intelligent. If you heavily weigh the story enough to swing one person you win. Sad but that’s how it works.
Not as much as being run over by a car though. Could this have been avoided had he been sober? Maybe. We’ll never know for sure. It’s definitely not unheard of for completely sober people to hit someone in the street after dark wearing dark clothing. We do know it would have been avoided had she simply been on the sidewalk where common sense says you should be after dark.
I agree he’s in the wrong, and almost certainly guilty based on the evidence that has be released through official channels, but I can’t get behind these people blaming the lawyers or suggesting this guy should just admit guilt and take his punishment. We’ve all done illegal stuff on public streets that could easily lead to someone’s death, and I doubt many of us would just roll over and take 20+ years in jail if it happened. No, you’d hire the best lawyer you could afford (and in the case of Joel Daniels it’s the best you can get in WNY) to try to salvage what’s left of your life.
The scumbag lawyer thing, at least to me, was bringing up that she was a “cutter” and trying to insinuate that maybe this was intentional on her part…
Again though, it’s a public, uncontrolled, road, she has as much right to ride a skateboard down the middle of it as he does to drive a car on it. Perceptibly “safe” or not.
Controlled highways aside, those people who are riding their bicycles in the middle of the lane are more aligned with the laws than the guy riding on the shoulder against traffic.
And legally, I hope they find him guilty of every single law he broke… I do NOT however hope they sentence him to the maximum on all accounts, as I believe (in moboosts courtroom fwiw lol) there were some factors that made this accident a possibility even if given near perfect conditions on the drivers end.
Imagine rather someone who should have been wearing prescription glasses had hit her because they dint see her… Im not comparing the two situations but what if the collision was borderline unavoidable given the position she put herself in? Again based on my first hand evaluation, it looks like anything shy of perfect attention and speed limit adherence at the site, could have made this accident a reality to anyone. Ill reiterate again though, I hope they law smack the shit out of him for leaving the scene and being over the limit. Im even down with negligent homicide if the facts line up but again, doesnt change that it could have been avoided 100% on her end. I guess in the most bass akwards way im saying he was in the wrong place at the wrong time just as much as he was doing the wrong thing.
Maybe I’m wrong about a skateboard falling under the same category as a bike, but if not, that’s like blaming the driver of a smart car for getting rear-ended.
In the sense of “owning the road”: we all do, and don’t need a driver’s license to take advantage of them.
(All this is based off my general understanding of the NYS V&T laws gleaned over the years and nothing I have ever read or been assured of)
I could be wrong , but I was under the impression only cars, motorcycles, bikes and licenced go/mopeds were “entitled” to the road… Again could be wrong
Really? I’d think there were laws in place to keep people from cluttering the roads and disrupting the flow of traffic. It’s not only dangerous for the person skateboarding/riding/whatever but it creates additional maneuvers for drivers that may cause dangerous scenarios depending on where it takes place.
Not disagreeing, just curious about this one.
I’m not sure about the legality of skateboarding in the street in NY, but if it falls under the bicycle ordinances she was entirely illegal because there are a bunch of requirements for lights and reflectors in Section 1236.
I can’t see how being in the street on a skateboard with no reflectors after dark is ever going to be deemed “legal” in a nanny state like NY either. Unfortunately it’s because of cases like this that NY HAS to be such a nanny state. A tiny sliver of common sense says doing what she did will eventually lead to being hit by a car, and if there isn’t a law against it on the books today there probably will be not long after this case is closed.
I figured there were equipment issues. Does anyone know for sure about a skateboard vs. a bike?
Also, I didn’t know you HAD to have a lamp on your bike as far back as 1976. Interesting.
I can’t find anything specifically addressing skateboards. The word “skateboard” is not mentioned anywhere in the VAT.
Because of that they most likely fall under the pedestrian category, which states:
I don’t recall seeing if she was going with or against traffic, but if with traffic that puts her in the wrong too. I’d have to guess with traffic because most people going against traffic would move out of the way when a car was about to hit them. @35-40 mph it’s not like cars just come out of nowhere. Plus she was coming from Hopkins toward N.Forest and he ended up on Millersport @ Campbell, suggesting he was also going that direction.
New York State
Traffic Laws for In-line Skates, Skateboards and Non-motorized Scooters*
These laws are basically the same as those for bicyclists.
- For the purpose of this list in-line skaters, skateboarders and riders
of non-motorized scooters shall be referred to as gliders.
(Vehicle & Traffic Law Sections 1230 to 1238)
Obey all traffic signals, signs and pavement markings
that apply to other drivers with obvious exceptions and special rules.
In-line skaters, skateboarders and non-motorized scooters must glide
with traffic. Moving with traffic makes gliders more visible, makes their
movements more predictable to motorists, and prevents interference with
the flow of traffic and pedestrians.
If bicycle or in-line skating lanes are available, they must be used.
Where no lanes are available gliders may use the right shoulder on
the area near the right edge or curb of the roadway.
Gliders may travel side-by-side on a roadway unless they are being overtaken
by other vehicles. Then they must ride single file. They may only travel
more than two abreast on a shoulder, lane or path intended for bicycling
or skating if there is sufficient space. However, they must be single
file when passing vehicles, pedestrians and other bicyclists or in-line
skaters.
ADDITIONALLY IN-LINE SKATERS, SKATEBOARDERS AND
RIDERS OF NON-MOTORIZED SCOOTERS:
Must not carry any package, bundle or article that obstructs
their vision in any direction.
Should not skate or glide outside from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2
hour before sunrise unless they are wearing an outer jacket or other clothing
made of laminated or reflective material that is a light or bright color.
Required Equipment
Persons less than 14 years old are required to wear a certified bicycle
helmet when riding a non-motorized scooter.
In-line skate manufacturers are required to put warning
labels on skates urging users to wear protective gear and to equip skates
with stopping devices. In addition, retailers who sell in-line skates
also are required to sell protective gear such as helmets, elbow and knee
pads and wrist guards. Manufacturers or retailers who don’t comply can
be fined as much as $500.
Then again maybe tiny sliver of some of that Bombey McBudster makes common sense irrelevant…
^ Interesting Jeller.
Based on that I started looking over some those sections of the VAT. There’s one additional section I’m not sure what to make of…
I think it means they are going to be adding reflective rules for skating but they aren’t currently on the books?
Pretty sure they’re only trying to get out of the manslaughter charge, everything else will probably stick. Still, she had marijuana in her system while riding a skateboard at night on a road. Usually
a bad idea (illegal maybe?) to drive/ride or operate anything while under the influence of something, which is what they’l probably try to prove contributed to her death. Either way, doctors still a scumbag for driving drunk.
I was kind of half joking with the scumbag lawyer comment. My wife and the majority of my friends are attorneys. I make that comment just about anytime this sort of thing happens.
That said…
That’s the other half of it.
Bringing up all this nonsense about her personal life isn’t really germane to the case at hand, other than to provide some shred of doubt on his level of responsibility. A good lawyer is always going to do that. To me, it just seems incredibly dishonorable to drag the girl, who by all the facts released it appears his client killed, through the mud. There are other ways to raise doubt, without bringing all this up.
I hope her family cleans him out on the wrongful death suit.
You mean these two? Yeah, I hope they don’t get a penny.
Its like, im not trying to come off as the most heartless person who is at face level defending a drunk driver, but again, from every first hand account I hear from people who knew this girl, I just get the impression that she definitely was a little off.
She went to AIM which is Williamsville School Districts “Alternative Learning Program.” Basically it gives kids who are screw ups and disruptive in class a special learning environment (from what I hear is a real joke) to get the same high school diploma as all the kids who do the right thing and have to take real tests with real time limits and do real homework. Its not a resource room kind of thing either, theyre generally kids who dont care or are distractions to others.
Be it her upbringing or whatever, im just having trouble picturing this “long boarding free spirit Alics” or however the hell she spelled her name being a innocent victim here. Lol im not saying she deserved to die because she was troubled, but im just doubting she was doing all the right things that alive kids are still doing today.
She was coming from the Hopkins I think it was said… if so, she would have been going with traffic.
This whole thread is just pissing me off now. Bull shit she was suicidal, she used to cut but had stopped a year prior. I was supposed to go teach her how do drive stick two days after this happened because her dad was in the process of buying her a car. Yes she was a little out there on some of her ideas but it’s a free fucking country.
wow…
just… wow.