My turbo went crap
I am having an issue with my turbo, bought brand new in June 05. T3/t4 (not sure of the trim but less then 50) with a 48 housing. Oil / water-cooled.
I need some input on what may have cause this turbo to go bad,
The turbo does not smoke, still looks clean but starting to have shaft play, you can see the impeller starting to scar the intake housing of the turbo, when spooling you can hear a noise, almost like a supercharger. The turbo still boost with crazy response.
I noticed that the 3/4 plug for the water line were no longer there, I believe the vibration made them fall off, My mistake did not tight them properly and forgot about it. Wondering of dirt or something may have gotten inside and destroy the internals .
I don’t have a turbo timer but usually leave the car running for min or sec depending of the driving .Max boost ever run was 10 psi for a day and I went back to 5 psi for 2 months now.
I unplugged the return line and ran the car ; oil is circulating properly through the turbo.
I also have had an oil restrictor since day 1 .
Does anyone have any idea of what cause this turbo to crap?
I will have it rebuilt by the end of december but I don’t want to do the same mistake again.
those water lines should be used,
they actaully extend the life of the turbo
the only reason why you have no smoke is because there is no water to evaporate
do you have oil comming out of your exhaust?
I duno about that man, I might be wrong, but a turbo smokes because its burning oil in the housing, no?
smokes for both, just different color smoke.
grey for water and blue for oil.
It mightbe due to “just bad turbo”. Like XS power ones or SS autochrome. I’ve read terrible stories about them. Stories like shaft wheel wont spin, housing cracking, seals smoking…
So if you have this kind of turbo, then you will need just to get anotherone instead.
What make is the Turbo?
Is it BB or a 360 Thrust?
turbos don’t need water
It only slows them down
Sounds like a bad reman. It’s spinning out of round, so whoever reassembled it did not balance it properly.
10psi is nothing for these turbos.
is your BOV working properly? i’m thinkin’ compressor surge, maybe. :dunno:
It’s not a BB turbo , it’s less that a 50trim with a 48 housing , my choice because I did not want any turbo lag , It’s very possible that the turbo may have not been properly manufactured .
10 psi of boost should not be the cause .
I was using a dsm bov on my car on the hot side , could it be a compression surge ? I am not gonna wait to find out , I am getting another 1 installed on the same pipe , 2 dsm bov on the same pipe :lol: .
highly doubt it… unless he put on like 50,000km without a BOV and boosted the shit outta the turbo
What is make of your blown turbo???
May be its blew just because it was end of it short life.
:arrow: If turbo requires watercooling, then its smart to use it. Bearrings need cooling. Also engine oil that goes through the torbo will become cooler. Oil will then retain its lublical capacity. It all equals to longer life for a turbo.
2 benefits in one package.
I kinda figure this out , check the ka-t site and ask about water cooled turbo.
Most will tell you to just plug the line , I have spoken to many people that just pluged the water line for a while now and they still not having any problem .
The water will cool down the turbo but damage only occur if the turbo is not timed proprely when shutting of the car .
That’s what I head .
The water ports are there for a reason, USE THEM. If they were useless the turbo manufacturer would not have invested the time and money required to incorporate them into the casting.
If you ask any competent turbo rebuilder, he will inform you water-cooling can only help.
This is not to say the failure of the turbo was due to this, but it certainly did not help the situation.
More details on the turbo are needed. Manufacturer? Factory brand new or reman? If reman, then who did the work? What size restrictor?
To narrow the possibilities for the failure, you will have to give more details.
^^^
Not really.
Oil cools the bearings, water just splashes the shaft.
In performance applications, this actually tend to slow down the turbo.
Water may give a bit of longevity, but in high boost situations, it can cause as many problems as it fixes.
Turbo cars run hot. Super heating the coolant in a car that already has cooling issues is not a good thing.
Oil temps and water temps are often almost the same in ideal conditions. The water hits the turbo last, so it’s also possible the coolant will be hotter than the oil, so it’s not going to have any cooling effect on the oil.
We are usually going well beyond what the manufacturer had in mind. Otherwise we’d all run stock boost with SMIC.
Run coolant if it makes you feel better, but running a turbo without coolant isn’t going to make it come apart.
It doesn’t change what is happening here.
His turbo is spinning so far out of round that the blades are tearing into the housing. This is because it is unbalanced. Unless something hit the blades (which is usally hella obvious). The “supercharger” sound is the blades hitting the housing.
Manufacturer, size, trim is irrelevant. Unless the manufacturer was some sweat shop in China.
If the turbo is unbalanced, spinning at 130,000 rpm, it’s only going to get worse and worse and worse.
This turbo is doing what most would do after a while of hardcore boosting. A T2 series running 1 BAR + will usually start to come apart after 60,000km. This happened faster, and at low boost.
A big diesel turbo like this is designed to run high boost and for a lot of miles.
Bananas tast good with Peanut butter
^^^ I with you man , Totally different ideas .
I will try to get more spec for the turbo but one thing for sure . It was purchased brand new .
This is the restrictor I was told to use
0.063" Orifice Diameter for a -3 an oil feed line .
First off, it does not simply splash, it circulates under pressure.
Second, it SIGNIFICANTLY cools the cartridge, bearings and all. The oil provides the more significant temperature drop in the bearings due to direct contact, however the water aids significantly nonetheless.
The fact the manufacturer invested in incorporating the water ports is testament to how much research effort must have been placed prior to doing so. This goes for thermodynamic calculations and bench testing alike. No individual experience can compare to that.
This is a completely ridiculous statement. If the car has cooling issues to begin with, then obviously you need to upgrade certain components in your cooling system. Whether this means replacing the radiator, thermostat, or otherwise.
Refusing to run water lines simply because your stock radiator cannot cope with the additional heat is no excuse.
Personally, I run a Z31 T3 with water lines attached. At 6 psi, my temperature has remained constant in comparison to running the motor NA. I realize if I increased the boost pressure my coolant temperature would consequently increase as well. This is not only a function of the cartridge heating the coolant, but more so the block expelling additional heat from the increase in combustion temperatures. At this point, it’s time to upgrade the radiator, not remove the water lines.
Infact, citing personal factual experience, my turbo cartridge had to be replaced due to lack of running coolant lines. During disassembly and inspection by a professional turbo remanufacturer, Herman at Cherry Turbos, it was clear the cartridge had run too hot from lack of coolant. This eventually accelerated the erosion about the sealing lip between the cartridge and exhaust housing. Furthermore, Herman recommended I run the water lines, regardless of boost pressure.
Firstly, water hits last? Pardon? As mentioned above, the water lines are pressurized. The water is constantly circulating throughout the center cartridge from the moment the motor is started. Both oil and water “hit” the cartridge at the same time.
Secondly, why would the water be hotter? Do you have proof of this, aside from speculation?
Thirdly, it does not matter if the water is hotter then the oil. The water is cooler then the cartridge. Thus, it will absorb heat, consequently having heat transfer out of the cartridge, cooling it. That is the whole point.
Had you read my first post you would realize I never mentioned this was the culprit for the failure. I merely mentioned it did not help the situation.
My post was directed at the debate of running water lines versus capping the ports more so then the failure itself.
Hence why I asked for the manufacturer, having seen the results of a ZY turbo, or whatever they may be called.
I am not interested in the compressor specifications, such as trim, etc. Those have nothing to do with the failure.
The fact whether this was a remanufactured turbo is a relevant question. As the quality of work is suspect at this point, hence why I asked.
it was clear the cartridge had run too hot from lack of coolant. This eventually accelerated the erosion about the sealing lip between the cartridge and exhaust housing.
This is all I wanted to know ,
thank you Titan
The sealing lip has nothing to do with the turbines or bearing failure.
I mentioned it simply as a possible consequence to running no waterlines over an extended period of time.
Ahh … I love this board!!! Everyone thinks that a post is all about them!!!
All them turbo porsches, volvos, audis, Maeseratis and everything else that run no coolant must go through turbos like crazy!!!
I tried to use conversational english. If you want to over analyze every single word, yet ignore the actual point that’s fine by me. Oddly enough you don’t seem to see that you are just agreeing with me.
But if we want to play the google game, lets look at what Garrett has to say
"The intake and exhaust plumbing often receives the focus leaving the oil and water plumbing neglected.
Garrett ball bearing turbochargers require less oil than journal bearing turbos. Therefore an oil inlet restrictor is recommended if you have oil pressure over about 60 psig. The oil outlet should be plumbed to the oil pan above the oil level (for wet sump systems). Since the oil drain is gravity fed, it is important that the oil outlet points downward, and that the drain tube does not become horizontal or go “uphill” at any point.
Following a hot shutdown of a turbocharger, heat soak begins. This means that the heat in the head, exhaust manifold, and turbine housing finds it way to the turbo’s center housing, raising its temperature. These extreme temperatures in the center housing can result in oil coking.
To minimize the effects of heat soak-back, water-cooled center housings were introduced. These use coolant from the engine to act as a heat sink after engine shutdown, preventing the oil from coking. The water lines utilize a thermal siphon effect to reduce the peak heat soak-back temperature after key-off. The layout of the pipes should minimize peaks and troughs with the (cool) water inlet on the low side. To help this along, it is advantageous to tilt the turbocharger about 25° about the axis of shaft rotation.
So … for heat soak back after key off?
I wouldn’t call that significant cooling. I’d call that an OEM manufacturing decision. See, same reason Dodge stopped selling turbo cars in the first place. People would race around, shut them off immediately and wonder why they kept having to take them back.
They also mention another important key here …
When to run a restrictor and on what turbo, when your oil pressure goes to what level. Not a blanket.
If we’re going to launch into a “my brain is bigger” argument here …
I’m well aware that the coolant system is closed and pressurized, thanks for the concern.
So is a turbo system.
But that doesn’t mean that the air in your hotpipe is the same temperature as the air on the cold side.
Now, follow along.
If your coolant leaves the rad nice and cold, then goes through the cylinder head, then into the turbo … it will have already absorbed the heat from the engine BEFORE it hits the turbo.
Yes, it is all rushing very quickly through the system and is quickly cooled once it hits the rad, but you’re missing the point.
You are introducing heat to the cooling system. You cannot physically take heat away. All you can do is absorb it. By absorbing the heat, the coolant makes the component it passes through cooler. But the coolant doesn’t stay cold. It heats up.
Now your rad has to deal with extra heat. In a stock system, not so big of a deal, it is what it was deisgned to handle. If you increase boost pressure, everything gets hotter.
And more heat is added to the coolant, from underhood temps, motor temp, turbo temp,
The problem is as you add more heat, it gets harder and harder to get rid of it. The rad can’t keep up, so the coolant is coming through a bit hotter and a bit hotter each time. This is what makes cooling a car down on the race track sometimes impossible, no matter how much airflow you can get across your rad.
Once everything is hot, there’s nothing you can do but pull over and wait.
Now, it’ s lovely that you run your Z31 at 6psi with no difference in temperature. I don’t really see how that applies.
But I ran my turbo all day at 12 psi with water lines attached, then tossed them altogether. I then ran the turbo at 17 psi until I stretched and snapped 2 headbolts. And that turbo is as happy and shaft-play free as ever.
Take a look at legitimate race cars running turbos. Oil lines only. Why? They don’t turn them off to get groceries.
Another thing which hasn’t been mentioned yet is surge, another culprit.
Well, it was mentioned, but only in reference to BOVs.
Take a look at a compressor map, and you will see at the left-hand side a line. That is the surge line.
Running the turbocharger under those boost pressure causes a lot of instability. If your turbo is too big, and you have to run it at 6 psi to keep from exploding your motor, you will kill your turbo by surging it constantly.
And since unlike surge protection from a BOV, where you aren’t under load, surge under load from too large of a turbo (or under boosting it) does way more damage.
Something for all of you running T4s at 6 psi to think about.