Jetta A/C Compressor Clutch Cycling

…mods you can throw away the one I accidentally tried posting in technical discussion. This is definitely an oh crap help post…

2001 Jetta VR6. A/C system with 3 wire pressure sensor and only 1 ambient temp switch. (I think they switched halfway through 2001 or something because my car matches 2002+ wiring schematics.)

My A/C stopped working last fall. There’s 100 psi in the system, so that’s not the problem.

I got ahold of a wiring schematic and the following procedure:

This summer has been a hot one, and I’m sure you have seen your share of air conditioning problems. Unfortunately, A/C systems have grown steadily more complex and difficult to diagnose.

The problem involved a 2000 Jetta GLS 2.8L manual A/C system with no compressor clutch operation. On this vehicle, the cooling fan and A/C compressor operation are controlled by the J293 fan control module, which is usually located in the driver’s front corner of the engine compartment on the lower frame rail. The J293 module has both a 14-pin connector identified as the T14 connector in Volkswagen wiring diagrams and a four-pin connector identified as the T4a connector.

To diagnose this system, starting on the T14 connector:

  1. Start and idle the vehicle. Select “A/C on” at maximum cooling and “blower on” at high speed.
  1. Check for 12 volts at the T14 connector pin No. 8 (T14/8). This 12-volt signal comes from the A/C switch and requires both cooling fans on at low speed and compressor activation.
  1. Check for 12 volts at pin T14/9. This voltage is a switched ignition source and will have 12 volts when the ignition is in the “on” position.
  1. Check for 12 volts at pin T14/4. This is a constant battery source and should read 12 volts at all times from fuse S16.
  1. Check for a good ground at pin T14/6.
  1. Check for 12 volts at all times at the four-pin connector, T4a pins T4a/1 and T4a/3 from fuses S164 and S180, respectively.
  1. Turn off the ignition. Remove the T14 connector and check for continuity between pins T14/14 and T14/5 on harness side to ensure proper operation of the F38 ambient temperature switch. Continuity must be present if the ambient air temperature is above 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Reconnect the T14 connector and restart the vehicle.
  1. Check pin T14/2 using a duty cycle meter. If the refrigerant charge in the system is normal, about 30 percent to 35 percent duty should be indicated at pin T14/2 without the compressor engaged. The duty cycle signal is supplied by the G65 pressure sensor in response to system pressure changes. A duty cycle above 90 percent or below 20 percent will command the compressor off.
  1. Check for an 11-volt reference voltage at pin T14/3. The reference voltage originates in the J293 fan control module and can be grounded by |the power control module (PCM) under certain circumstances (typically wide open throttle or vehicle overheat conditions) to turn the A/C compressor off.

If zero volts are present, the PCM is commanding “compressor off” or the wiring harness is shorted to ground. Raise vehicle idle speed above 2500 rpm and observe compressor operation and voltage at pin T14/3. If the voltage at pin T14/3 returns to 11 volts with the idle speed above 2500 rpm and compressor operation resumes, then a throttle basic setting procedure is needed and must be performed with a factory-compatible, by-directional scan tool. Note: A loss of throttle basic settings will keep the compressor from activating.

If all previous tests have passed, check the T14 connector pin T14/10 for 12 volts. This pin is the output signal to the compressor clutch coil. If all the other tests have passed and there is no voltage at pin T14/10, this indicates a faulty fan control module.

As you can see, turning on an A/C clutch is not a simple function on late model vehicles, and systems that you might not associate with an A/C problem can stop you and your customer from keeping cool. Be sure to check Direct-Hit’s Hotline Archive section for more diagnostic procedures and tips.

My ECU is grounding T14/3 in step 9. Bracketracer was kind enough to take some time yesterday and reset my throttle body with a vag-com cable and software. No change.

Bracketracer noticed that my car has a lumpy idle when the A/C button is on. So he scanned it and my A/C compressor clutch is cycling on/off several times a second. The multimeter was picking up that the grounded wire (T14/3) had a voltage every few seconds, so it wasn’t responding fast enough and aliasing. I guess I ignored that part when I was working through the above procedure.

The vag-com scan also said something about Coolant Temp Sensor G2 being faulty, giving a cycling signal. So I thought that was the problem: The ECU was cycling the compressor on/off as that sensor was telling the ECU that the car was overheating.

So I replaced G2 (the one under the intake mani on the front of the block) but nothing changed.

What could be the cause of this?

I’m thinking that the J293 Fan control may not be working properly; check the 11V reference coming out of that to either the PCM or the T14. Read between chassis and whatever pin the 11V output is supposed to be coming from.

Let me know if u need another schematic.

bad coil in the pully/clutch assembly?

lol damn you’re good! As long as the ecu is plugged in, T14/3 is continuous with ground. If I unplug the ECU, T14/3 is no longer grounded.

I really think it’s a control system problem, as that wire that the ECU can ground to call off the fan control module is cycling between grounded and ungrounded.

Sounds like a bad ECU; or maybe it just needs to be flashed. See if the dealer or who ever can flash your ECU.

I maybe a Mechanical Engineer; but I KNOW automotive electronics like the back of my hand. Give me a schematic and I’ll figure out any electrical issue with a car.

You think so? Never really considered that.

:ohnoes:

Actually, I got a recall letter a little while back about reflashing the ECU for something… It wasn’t related to this, but that could be a free reflash… Hmm…

As I’m seeing it…

The Fan Module is supplying the 11V reference signal; Basically pulling the relay closed. The ECU can “bypass” the 11V reference signal and pull it low/to ground causing the relay to open.

If the ECU is unplugged and you’re getting the 11V and it’s not pulling to ground, then the problem is with the ECU.

Either the ECU is having an issue (which is what it sounds like); or something the ECU is reading is causing it to pull it to ground. From what you describe of it “pulsing” to ground, the ECU reading a signal from a sensor and turning it off I don’t believe would cycle like that; it would read the sensor and then trigger if off; unless the signal from the sensor was going nuts as well.

hmm… another thought…

Check your TPS and MAP sensors; if one of those are bad or going bad, the ECU maybe thinking the car is at full throttle… I’m leaning towards and bad MAP sensor actually.

I was thinking the same thing, that the ECU is grounding out the voltage that would normally be directed towards the A/C clutch coil. ECU issue sounds the most reasonable, as it’s not uncommon for a damaged micro-relay to “chatter” rather than seal closed.

This problem has been going on for over a year, so I would “assume” :ham: that if I had a TPS or MAP giving up the ghost it would have totally eaten it by now.

Plus when Jason scanned my ECU yesterday the only faults that showed up were a bad passenger side mirror heater and that coolant temp sensor. Maybe the ECU input from the temp sensor has gone bad. :gotme:

Yea, true point there about the TPS/MAP for a year long problem.

I’d say your next step is a reflash; and if that doesn’t do anything, then ECU time.

I may look into having it reflashed. But other than that it’s new car time.

theres only 2 reasons why ac compressor cycle though to much or to little. if its cyciling it meand u have good connection.

who makes the ac compressor on that car? I can run the question by some of the engineers here at work (we design/engineer AC systems). Long as it’s internal (aka, not related to the ecu and such) one of 'em should be able to help ya out.

lmk