what else did you think?
you going get back some would class shit or something, that would be surprising.
Juat?
maybe something between “world class” and pure shit" would have been nice. Sandblasting a bearing surface is pure stupidity. A few extra pieces of tape would have covered the areas in question without a problem.
Doesnt help that they had the engine for over 2 months. im sure they could have found the time to not fuck everything up in the process.
I understand your concern but I will tell you this. The surface finish of the gasket rail and the bearing journal will not be an issue.
Your main issue is that the heads were bead blasted. Those heads are now junk. You will never, ever get all of the sand/glass out of the castings and it will end up in your oil at some point. Had these heads been soda blasted then that would be fine because once they run it through the jet wash cycle after to clean it out the soda would dissolve (160*F). The surface finish would have been the same if it was soda blasted with none of the negative effects of the glass. If this were a valve stem or a piston ring lands I would understand your concern but there it shouldn’t be an issue, minus the glass of course.
And I agree. It’s like someone setup a fisher price my first machine shop. We all know you can’t ram a square peg into a round hole but god damn it they will try.
Dude, I’m not trying to be a dick. However after knowing you for a few years and seeing the stuff you do, YOU REALLY NEED TO STOP WORKING ON ANYTHING CAR RELATED HOLY FUCK!!! Your statement is the number one reason why everything you build fucking sucks and fails. Sell your tools and buy a hyundai with a fucking warranty.
Yeah that is a bunch of horse shit but I will tell you from experience those guys won’t do a damn thing that you don’t ask them to do. They might as well be union. So if they sand blasted the engine then you must have asked them to do it. Otherwise there are other, better ways to clean that block properly.
I’d be weary of these guys as well. Machine work I have had from them on a few different engines has been half assed and has left me in a pinch many times. I know mike at innovative has had similar problems.
That’s all I ever have them do.
Agreed.
Im not actually concerned about a majority of the gasket surfaces as most of them are paper or rubber gaskets HOWEVER the intake and exhaust gaskets are all pressed metal units, and those kinds of gaskets dont play well with rough finishes.
Intake leaks are a huge problem on any car, and exhaust leaks are a huge problem on a turbo car… the rest of the gasket surfaces just show how little of a fuck they give
you don’t think the bearing journals will be a issue? Your opinion is valued here i’m not trying to give you a hard time. The intake and exhaust side can be cleaned up but it will not be fun.
Your main issue is that the heads were bead blasted. Those heads are now junk. You will never, ever get all of the sand/glass out of the castings and it will end up in your oil at some point. Had these heads been soda blasted then that would be fine because once they run it through the jet wash cycle after to clean it out the soda would dissolve (160*F). The surface finish would have been the same if it was soda blasted with none of the negative effects of the glass. If this were a valve stem or a piston ring lands I would understand your concern but there it shouldn’t be an issue, minus the glass of course.
I did my best to clean every passage I could out. The amount of grit in the oil passages was a hell of a lot less than I expected. TONS of brake clean and pipe cleaners were used to get it as clean as I possibly can. I can’t promise I got every spec but it is as good as it can be until it is run.
And I agree. It’s like someone setup a fisher price my first machine shop. We all know you can’t ram a square peg into a round hole but god damn it they will try.
Dude, I’m not trying to be a dick. However after knowing you for a few years and seeing the stuff you do, YOU REALLY NEED TO STOP WORKING ON ANYTHING CAR RELATED HOLY FUCK!!! Your statement is the number one reason why everything you build fucking sucks and fails. Sell your tools and buy a hyundai with a fucking warranty.
My green SHO was my first ever project car. It was a hell of a learning experience. I am doing everything I can not to make this project a sinking ship. It is a frustrating point to start from when you give a machine shop parts and get back damaged parts or in the event of the first engine block they returned scrap. If they didn’t make the bores to big I may be able to order pistons for them in the future, but that is a another story.
Yeah that is a bunch of horse shit but I will tell you from experience those guys won’t do a damn thing that you don’t ask them to do. They might as well be union. So if they sand blasted the engine then you must have asked them to do it. Otherwise there are other, better ways to clean that block properly.
I went in with a block, heads, pistons, rods, valves, springs, and explained what the project was as it related to their machine work. The only additional work they had to do was deck the heads and block. They are both listed to be discarded if decking is needed in the books but people have been doing it for years on the forums so I gave them the go for that and requested they take the min cut required to clean it up. I never requested to blast the heads. They were not that bad going in. They just had the usual gold/brown from being nearly 20 years old
edit:I just find the whole situation frustrating. I go into a place and ask for work to be done and get fucked. My only concern on these heads are the bearing surfaces not having their mirror finish like they had going in. I have complete faith in my ability to build a engine with the parts that are still available. The entire engine is in tolerance and was checked and rechecked every step of the way as far as assembly goes. The only thing in the engine i’m not a fan of is having to reuse the oil pump because they are not available. The engine it came out of had good pressure so that is all i can do on that.
Understandable.
I’m sorry but there is very little you will be able to do to get all of the glass out. Even if it looks clean it will still contain some in crevises and pockets that you weren’t able to reach. When it comes loose it will make it’s way into the pan. Some glass is fine enough to pass through the filter. Or it will just work it’s way out of the main galleys onto the crank during operation. Glass is very hard and will chew up an engine ASAP. If you did not ask them to blast the block or heads I would go in and talk to Tom and explain your situation. The best thing you might be able to do is to find someone with a large immersion ultrasonic cleaner. This MIGHT help to remove the trapped glass but it’s no guarantee.
Even if your task takes forever, don’t do anything good enough just for the sake of finishing the project. There’s never enough time to do it right he first time but always enough to do it right the second…
As for the oil pump. Pull it apart and check the clearances. If it’s good run it and lock-tite any screws that you removed. Check the gears for imbedded material. If there is you might want to check somewhere for one.
same great work every time
if your that woried about the gasket surfaces just have them take a lite cut off them.you should have it done anyways on the combustion side to be sure the heads not warped.Most machine shops will beadblast the head.Just blow it out with an air compressor and move on.
You sir are clearly not an engine builder.
It is common practice for machine shops to glass bead heads. This was especially common for Iron heads. I worked at a machine shop for awhile. This really isn’t used much though on alum heads and modern multi valve per cyl. heads with multiple oil passages. I personally wouldn’t do it to my heads…but a lot of machine shops(shitty ones) still glass bead all the heads they get.
I honestly think people don’t quite understand the thin film of oil that lubricates these moving parts and what contaminates will actually do if they make their way down an oil passage to a bearing.
your correct im not a engine builder,but i have built many engines and never had any problems with them.Engines arnt rocket science.
Rocket engines are 
---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------
I think this topic needs to be broken down. There is a big difference between “not a fantastic idea” and “immediate engine failure”. There are also multiple materials and designs when it comes to engine heads.
Particle embedding in Aluminum would of course be more likely than with Iron, but I don’t feel this will occur at any major level, and galleries wont have embedding as you cannot even get a “direct hit” of substantial force to embed the media down a gallery. Ports and chambers can be wiped. Decks will be surfaced. When you get down to it, much of the exposed embedded area will either be shaved, or can be cleaned “with force”. If you can’t scrub it out, it is unlikely it will come out on its own. However, I personally feel that embedding is a minimal problem. The “beads” used are fairly large overall, and in general don’t “shard” into the surface.
In general, I would not recommend glass-beading anything except Iron heads from Pushrod engines, and you can do it with aluminum pushrod heads as well, if you take your time cleaning them in multiple different ways. Plainly, there is nowhere for the glass to hide on a pushrod head that you cannot access that would make its way anywhere except the cooling system at worst, where it will sit at the bottom of the tank or radiator until flushed. Certainly no worse than the multitude of metal shavings that end up in the coolant passages from decking the heads.
However, in an overhead cam engine, the additional oil galleries and valves can pose more issues. It is not impossible to clean them either however… it would just take forever.
That being said, use Soda or Walnut Shell, and don’t blast bearing surfaces and parting lines in any case. And no matter what you use, CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN.
IMHO, If this guy did a VERY good cleaning, and a quick hone of the bearing surfaces, he wont have an issue.
ive had machine work done by napa and 10k miles later its running great. everything looked great and went together perfect.
my old man works at the napa on werle in willysville for twenty years plus and he damn sure knows what he’s talking about.
Well i hope your old man isn’t the one responsible for this cluster fuck of destruction, cause SOMEONE at the Wherle Dr Napa IS responsible.
and the plot thickens
I am not discrediting the ability to do machine work. The fact that they scrapped my first block (unless I order pistons to fit it) is not that big of a deal. It sucks but shit happens. Assembly was going great till I saw the bearings on the heads no longer had their mirror finish. A few people on here said it is not a big deal. This is my first engine so I wanted to get input on the situation. I spent a good deal of time online reading and final call was to use the heads and not freak out and have them cut another set. Am I thrilled with their work at this point? NO, but I do believe the engine will function properly. I think they handled the block situation properly. I don’t know how it happened but they had a 2 day turn around on getting the second block back to me. The pistons fit perfect. rod and crank clearances are all in spec, and are all consistent. The decks are flat. If they had not blasted the bearing surface on the end of the heads, the machine gasket surface for the intake manifold and exhaust manifolds. I would have been happy with their work. Lets be honest that is a pretty big fail right there.
Wait, is this for the Camaro you’re swapping a V6 into?
SHOmaro