I understand now, thanks.
upstate would you pay your employees 8000 dollars more a year and 2000 fine to make up the difference?
Also for some reason i thought it was a lot more than $2000 for the employer? i thought somewhere around $10000. I thought it was only 2 for the employee.
you just saying that or giving up? :rofl
I was more or less agreeing with you actually.
the obama care shit insnt in place now. So it doesnt matter. Pay full HC prices or nothing.
then when its in place you have to pay atleast something per emp. If you run a big company that used to have insurance and now you see a big cost cutting measure and a risk to take by pulling the coverage from your people. Or you can continure as is, nothing will change, HC is still offered no sweat. OR you have a small biz where the people work hapily for you without coverage, and now the owner is getting fined for not offering it.
I wouldnt be suprised if the small bussinesses start laying off people to cover the fucking fines per year. Hows that for “change” and opening up new jobs???
Same topic, change of path…
How do you guys think this will effect the quality/timeliness of care… how decisions are made and what care is allowable for what patients and when. How do you think the average doctor feels about this, from a care standpoint, from a workload standpoint, and from a paperwork standpoint…and lastly from a pay standpoint?
I don’t expect hardly anything to change for me. I have a “cadillac” health insurance plan though work. It’s stupid expensive. I suspect that care for most people will not change, or it will actually improve. ie: not being denied coverage, or capping out, or whatever.
Although I can say my health insurance almost tripled in total cost (for the same care, but to be fair, with new technologies) in the 2000’s, and as soon as this pushback on the health insurance companies happened, the total cost actually went down for the first time ever.
When you guys are saying small business, you do know it’s 50+ employees, not something as little as 1.
The business has to “offer” insurance. I can’t find anywhere on how much the business has to pay for it. Currently, my wife’s company offers insurance for a tax break, but they pay like 10%. I’m sure it will be something similar.
As far as the quality of healthcare is concerned, I’m sure it will be the same, if not better considering everyone will be insured and not trying to scam the hospital / doctor’s out of “hard earned” income.
What really needs to fix the outrageous cost of it all is administration waste. IIRC about 30% of the bill goes to administration fees and paperwork. The rest are waste and overcharging patients / insurance companies for stuff that shouldnt cost that much.
The major problem with the healthcare industry is that it’s a for profit industry. When dealing with human life, it should not be for profit.
.
While I want to agree with that, I can’t. We want the best care? We need the best doctors and nurses. With that, they needed the best education. With that, they needed to go to the best schools, with the best professors, and the cycle continues.
Doctors and nurses didn’t get as far as they did for free, and we did not make the same sacrifices they did. They need to get paid for the field they do so well in.
So in the same idea you have, does that mean construction for houses shouldn’t be for profit? Should clothing companies not get any profit? How about food companies?
What constitutes the “best care?”
Pills and unnecessary and expensive testing?
Look at how many countries outrank us in this category, and many of these countries have a socialized healthcare system. Just some food for thought.
While you may think life expectancy is a direct reflection of healthcare, you know damn well there’s far more factors than that.
Here’s another list: Countries Compared by Health > Obesity. International Statistics at NationMaster.com
Just because they have higher life expectancies, it does not directly correlate to health care. It also has to do with the general public and how they eat, and many other factors such as what’s around them. And yes, this is an argument from a fat person.
In approx 1 billion years, the sun will grow larger, overheat our entire planet, and kill everything. All this shit is for nothing, really…
Have a great day!
PS - Fuck Obama.
People who are already on government assistance to the tune of, again, free cell phones, free rent, free food, ect. already pay nothing, so what is the government going to fine them for not buying health insurance? The money the government already gave them? The point is, forcing people to get health insurance is ridiculous…the feel good make everyone equal thing is getting real old…if you don’t have health insurance you get basic treatment, and that is an economic decision families and people need to make for themselves, not for the gov’t to force onto anyone, its not their place…
The fact that you, vlad, seem to like the idea of getting forced to buy health insurance is scary…if you want it so bad…go get some or is that too simple?
yes according to you I’m sure businesses make too much too…
and youre probably right, the high costs for health care probably have nothing to do with the MONSTROUS amount of insurance health care professionals need to pay becuase of the billions in law suits every year for bullshit.
try to get seen at ellis hospital er on a saturday night after midnight…theres so many drunks and non law abiding citizens in there you literally have a couple hour wait for the ER…when everyone gets insurance throug gov’t theyll ALL be going it will be impossible.
Are you an idiot or just plain stupid?
And I do have insurance thank you very much. Are you so upset because you don’t?
Where is your outrage about other federal programs or is this the only one?
If according to you its so glamorous to live for free and get everything for free and millions are doing it then why don’t you sign up? Fuckit, you won’t even have to pay the fine, they will give you insurance. :ponder
You blaming the government for trying to provide for it’s people is like us saying businesses make too much money. They do what they were made to do, in the meantime individuals in government just like business making money for themselves off the entity.
Then again corporations are people so man they will have to offer insurance for their own entity if Mobil comes down with a cold or some shit.
Don’t you dare blame the amount of dollars that lawsuits cost as part of the problem.
Lawyers exist for two reasons, to sue and make as much money as possible.
Insurance industry needs to make as much money from the healthcare industry as well.
Oh and good luck getting rid of it with the other idiot who wants to be in the office
The problem for Romney is that there are no fundamental differences between the two laws. Both programs create exchanges where private insurers compete. Both require individuals to purchase insurance. And both subsidize those who can’t afford it. It’s a relatively new way of extending coverage. Massachusetts was the first place it was adopted, and the Affordable Care Act was the second. The two laws are, in the words of Jonathan Gruber, who helped design both the Romney and Obama plans, “the same fucking bill.”
To find any differences between the two, you must look to the margins.
The Individual Mandate
This is the part of the Affordable Care Act that really enrages Republicans, whose challenge to it is awaiting judgment by the Supreme Court. It’s an essential part of both plans. The only difference between Romney’s mandate and Obama’s is that Romney’s plan levies a harsher penalty on people who don’t buy insurance: $1,200 versus Obama’s $695.
It’s not something Romney can easily distance himself from. Last week Buzzfeed uncovered a 2009 op-ed by Romney in which he urges Obama to follow Massachusett’s lead and adopt the mandate. “Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages ‘free riders’ to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others,” he wrote.
Subsidies
Both plans subsidize people who can’t afford to buy insurance on an exchange. The only difference is that Massachusetts gives more money to fewer people (anyone earning up to 300 percent of the poverty level), while Obama’s plan gives less money to more people (anyone earning up to 400 percent of the poverty level).
Employer Mandate
Again, both plans require employers to provide insurance, and again the differences are marginal. In Massachusetts companies with 11 or more employees must provide insurance or pay a $295 penalty per employee. Under the Affordable Care Act, companies with 50 or more employees must offer insurance or pay a $2,000 penalty per employee. Romney’s plan affects smaller businesses; Obama’s levies harsher penalties.
Last interview I heard with him he said Obama care was outrageous and when asked what he would change he just said “we will make it better”, without any specifics. :rofl
Yeah this shit is here to stay one way or another.
My wife (an RN and a manager) says with this and the way college is changing for health degrees we are going to have some problems.
Anyone can go to HVCC for 2 years and walk out with an LPN license for cheap. And everyone needs nurses right? So the job market is flooded right now with freshout of school, no expierence licensed nurses. Mix in the law of averages saying half of them will have a shitty work ethic, and the younger generations “sterotypical” demeanor… finding a GOOD nurse isnt easy. Infact my wifes small company lost 3 of the nurse managers, and the few applying for the position are not what they are looking for to put it nicely. And the hundred or so RN’s & LPN’s working under her are a revolving door of crap. Some are good and work very well, but a majority should be flipping burgers, not pushing meds. A few days ago at 1:30 AM she got a call from a nurse saying she didnt want to be at the case any more and was going home, and hung up! Ignored the calls back, didnt come to work the next day, and finany showed up and gave my wife and the director a line of bull shit why she “had” to leave the patient, and that her phone died. I could go on and on about the crap she sees.
Back to school. Tuition for anything past an entry level nursing position is steadily rising. Infact my wife watched her tuition rise twice in the year and a half she has been attending, while the government still has no problem handing loans out to anyone under the sun to give it a shot. What this is doing is once again filling job applications with under expierenced people who now have a fancy degree and a giant debit to pay back. Those people wont settle for an entry level position becasue the money isnt there to pay the debit back, and the pride is too high becasue they have a specialist degree now.
So from the provider standpoint, you are loosing the grey area in the middle, where quality care is given to patients through good ethics and proper pay. You are getting a mass of entry level people chomping at the bit to take anything they can get (which allows the providers to lower the pay rate), and now they see that they can push the primary care providers out of the system and hire the new specialists (again at a lower pay) to fill in up top, since this obamacare stuff is fluffing the pillows for “better quality care” and wanting to send patients right to a specialist more so than a PC provider.
Thats the jist of it from what she tells me. It doesnt look good. The ballance isnt there to keep people working, learning and living honestly in the healthcare market, when plans like this are pushing everyone to one extreme or the other.
THIS, big time. I got airlifted to albany med and laid on a back board for hours waiting to be seen, with internal bleeding, broken bones and who knew what else at the time… while my wife and family watched people with upset tummys come in by the dozens to get sent home ahead of me with a bill. I sat in local ER’s with broken bones, dislocated shit, steel in my eyes, compressed vertebrae, etc… my shits broken here people… while I sit and wait for hours watching screaming kids run around uncontrolled while their baby’s dady gets his stomach pumped from alcohol poisoning, and all the other “are you fucking kidding me” crap that comes in.
Make it free for everyone, there is absolutely NO way that could LESSEN that nonsense… it can only get worse.
Wife works for a not for profit co. They won’t spend money on simple scheduling software because it costs too much they think up front, yet pay employees over time and on call time to fix mistakes, crazy money from the inefficiency of the process’s they use with paper and pencil, and bitch about the shitty process. Both for and not for profit have their ups and downs… there is no way around that I guess.
Like I said, student loans are way too easy to get, and the seats filled with those debit carriers are easily shuffled off to graduation across the country. The only way to get better students into better schools, to produce better employees is to make it HARDED to get a school loan, make the testing and school process more of a challenge again (schools get paid wither or not people pass or fail) then hire and compensate those good employees properly. The flakes in shitty jobs and sitting at a computer doing an online degree over gov assistance while drinking a beer or smoking a joint will have to get off their ass and put a ton more work in to get the degree and job they are after. RAISING THE SOCIAL ETHIC of people is the key to scuccess here.
Nope, my health insurance is pretty awesome, in fact I make money everytime I go to the hospital through an additional private policy I have.
Where is your outrage about other federal programs or is this the only one?
This is a thread about the new health care plan
If according to you its so glamorous to live for free and get everything for free and millions are doing it then why don’t you sign up? Fuckit, you won’t even have to pay the fine, they will give you insurance. :ponder
Who said it was glamorous? I said people are lazy peices of shit who would literally rather live in filth than get jobs because its easier. So, no thanks I’m good with working.
You blaming the government for trying to provide for it’s people is like us saying businesses make too much money. They do what they were made to do, in the meantime individuals in government just like business making money for themselves off the entity.
They should provide for the coutnry your right…make an evironment where people who want to , can get jobs so they can get their own healthcare if they CHOOSE…then the remaining slobs can go without.