Oil... how does it work? [split]

[Vovchandr]

@TurboTravis

(no caffeine yet bear with me)

Vlad, 100 percent without a doubt, the thicker an SAE oil is, the slower it’s flow rate is. We can agree on that.

What you don’t understand is that on a 5W30 oil, 5W does not equal 30 at any given temperature. All is means is that the oil flows like a SAE 5@cold temps, and an SAE 30 at operating temps.

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT HERE WE GO

A SAE 5 oil at cold temps does not flow as well as an SAE 30 at high temps (so a 5W30 is indeed thicker at cold temps vs. warm).

I don’t know what else to say.

Plus rep for actually putting your thinking cap on and actually having the discussion unlike the rest of the trolls.

However the part in bold is still an issue with me.

How does that work when SAE says that 5 should be thinner.

Common sense is oil thickens up when it drops in temperature, however SAE scale says the opposite when it says that a low number is thin but a high number is thick?

Clearly something is an issue here with a piece missing.

Edit: Also I’ve found that half the articles say that the numbers on the bottle describe the viscosity and the other half say they don’t (like mafdarks post above). :ponder

Edit X2: SAE 5 should flow better than SAE 30 no?

[TurboTravis]

@Vovchandr

Plus rep for actually putting your thinking cap on and actually having the discussion unlike the rest of the trolls.

However the part in bold is still an issue with me.

How does that work?

Common sense is oil thickens up when it drops in temperature, however SAE scale says the opposite when it says that a low number is thin but a high number is thick?

low number is indeed thin, and high number is indeed thick.

What you’re not grasping is that a 5W is PHYSICALLY THICKER in cold temps vs. an SAE 30 in high temps.

(not sure if this next statement will help or hurt)-a 5W30 at cold temps is THINNER than a straight SAE 30 in cold temps, and the same thickness at high temps.

[TurboTravis]

SAE 5 at cold temps is thicker than an SAE 30 at high temps, etc…

[Vovchandr]

@TurboTravis

low number is indeed thin, and high number is indeed thick.

What you’re not grasping is that a 5W is PHYSICALLY THICKER in cold temps vs. an SAE 30 in high temps.

(not sure if this next statement will help or hurt)-a 5W30 at cold temps is THINNER than a straight SAE 30 in cold temps, and the same thickness at high temps.

I’ve edited my post above, not sure if you caught that.

I know that straight oil such as just “30” will be the same at high temp at 5w30, as a straight oil has only been tested at operating temp. That won’t be confusing anybody.

@TurboTravis

low number is indeed thin, and high number is indeed thick.

What you’re not grasping is that a 5W is PHYSICALLY THICKER in cold temps vs. an SAE 30 in high temps.

Is there a different between SAE thickness rating and being “physically thicker”?

Because then I’m still just as confused. If low number is indeed thin and high number is indeed thick, and one oil rated 0w30 (for example) is going to be thin like 0 at 32deg and thick like 30 at operating temp, that would imply that it gets thicker as it gets warmer.

[Wayne64SS]

@Vovchandr"

I’m dumb for quoting articles and asking a question? :rofl

NO. You’re DUMB for not understanding the answer.

[Vovchandr]

@Wayne64SS

NO. You’re DUMB for not understanding the answer.

Explain it then using SAE ratings and viscosity terms in relation to the discussion me and TTravis are having.

Dr Genius.

[Wayne64SS]

It’s been explained 400 times correctly in here already. Reread the thread. If you don’t get it by now, nothing I’m going to say can help.

[Vovchandr]

@Wayne64SS

It’s been explained 400 times correctly in here already. Reread the thread. If you don’t get it by now, nothing I’m going to say can help.

You’re a troll :rofl

It has not been explained why SAE rating of being low (fluid) viscosity at a low number and high (thick) viscosity at a high number for the same oil tested at two temperature ranges (0, or fluid at 32deg, and 50, or thick at 210deg) does not match real world observations.

If oil thickens up as it gets colder (which it does) SAE rating should follow that and display it as a high (thick) number as first number and a lower (thinner) number as the second.

Where was that explained again “400 times”?

:gtfo

[Wayne64SS]

OMFG you are dumb. Seriously dude. Re-read Travis posts. You’re comparing numbers that aren’t comparable.

5w-30 is an oil that has the viscosity of a 5 weight oil when it’s cold and has the viscosity of a 30 weight oil when its warm. WHAT YOU ARENT FUCKING SMART ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND IS THIS: The 30 rating is at warm temperature, all it means is that it flows as a 30 weight oil would AT THAT FUCKING TEMPERATURE. This will always be much less thick and easier flowing than the 5w because that is rated COLD.

And if I’m wrong then how does reg SAE30 weight get easier to poor when its warm and it’s molasses when its cold??? PHYSICS YOU FUCKING PUTZ.

[Vovchandr]

@Wayne64SS

OMFG you are dumb. Seriously dude. Re-read Travis posts. You’re comparing numbers that aren’t comparable.

5w-30 is an oil that has the viscosity of a 5 weight oil when it’s cold and has the viscosity of a 30 weight oil when its warm. WHAT YOU ARENT FUCKING SMART ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND IS THIS: The 30 rating is at warm temperature, all it means is that it flows as a 30 weight oil would AT THAT FUCKING TEMPERATURE. This will always be much less thick and easier flowing than the 5w because that is rated COLD.

And if I’m wrong then how does reg SAE30 weight get easier to poor when its warm and it’s molasses when its cold??? PHYSICS YOU FUCKING PUTZ.

Are you seriously just trolling around? How are they not comparable?

5w-30 is an oil that has the viscosity of a 5 weight oil when it’s cold and has the viscosity of a 30 weight oil when its warm

SAE ratings says 5 is THINNER THEN 30. That’s the point. :facepalm

The lower the viscosity number, the thinner a fluid is.

If oil is easier flowing when warm it should have a LOWER number.

Edit: Do you not see how that’s an issue?

[Wayne64SS]

@Vovchandr

Are you seriously just trolling around? How are they not comparable?

SAE ratings says 5 is THINNER THEN 30. That’s the point. :facepalm

The lower the viscosity number, the thinner a fluid is.

If oil is easier flowing when warm it should have a LOWER number.

Jesus Christ. There is no helping you. I’m done arguing you’re too dumb to get it.

Fuck it. one last time. 5w IS thinner THAN 30w. Just like 5 is thinner than 30. You can’t compare 5w to 30 because they are different fucking ratings you idiot. GOD DAMN.

[madwabbit]

This has to be a joke…right?

I absolutely 100% didn’t know any of the above information 20 minutes ago.

Now I understand and feel well informed.

If this concept of comparing apples to oranges is not making sense yet…you might need to just read the thread over once again. You are missing a fairly simple concept…one more read slowly and carefully will yield results I’m sure.

[Vovchandr]

@Wayne64SS

Jesus Christ. There is no helping you. I’m done arguing you’re too dumb to get it.

Fuck it. one last time. 5w IS thinner THAN 30w. Just like 5 is thinner than 30. You can’t compare 5w to 30 because they are different fucking ratings you idiot. GOD DAMN.

Can’t compare a viscosity of the same fluid at different temperatures? I’m done with you, you clearly don’t get it.

W just designates the fact that it was tested at 32 degrees, it doesn’t mean that its an entirely different scale, it’s a designation rating for a different temperature you moron.

Holy shit you’re thick.

It’s like saying you cant compare water thickness when it’s ice, vs when it’s boiling because they are “different fucking ratings” due to temperature :rofl

Let’s make it simple for you. Honey is thick, so we will give it a reading of 30. I put it to 32 degrees F so it becomes less fluid, I should give it a reading of HIGHER AKA THICKER viscosity becase it’s less fluid at 32 degrees.

That would make honey 100w-30 Because it’s thicker at cold then when it’s warm.

They are rating a fluid that’s thicker at cold, with a value that implies more fluidity.

[Wayne64SS]

OMFG :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[cazwrx187]

@Vovchandr

SAE ratings says 5 is THINNER THEN 30. That’s the point. :facepalm

:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm :facepalm:facepalm:facepalm :facepalm:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm

[Wayne64SS]

dude he can’t even grasp 5w-30. then and than are fucking wayyyyy too advanced.

[1320-20V]

http://www.ideas4ag-ed.com/uploads/3/7/0/4/3704787/stan_toepfer_understanding_motor_oil_viscosity.pdf

[Vovchandr]

@1320-20V

http://www.ideas4ag-ed.com/uploads/3/7/0/4/3704787/stan_toepfer_understanding_motor_oil_viscosity.pdf

@Vovchandr"

I’m dumb for quoting articles and asking a question? :rofl

As the arrow points out, the thicker the SAE grade oil is, the slower the flow rate is.

Does anybody even read the thread anymore before posting?

Mafdarks article says that the numbers on bottle don’t mean viscosity even. :ponder

This is the viscosity of the oil, not the weight or grade as labeled on the oil can.

[1320-20V]

I posted the link so that other people could read the whole article not just the part you posted.

And for some reason you keep posting this article which is correct, and than half the stuff you say is correct, and half of it is wrong. Yet all the answers are in the article.

The Winter rating is an index. It is a number that is proportional to cold viscosity.

The other number, the hot number is the hot viscosity.

I missed the first two threads so I am not even sure what this argument is even about, or who has said what so I just posted the article which explains everything you ever wanted to know about engine oil ratings.

What was the comment that even prompted this debate to begin with?

I think some of the confusion here is why you would even want viscosity to begin with. You need viscosity to cause pressure in the bearings. Too high of a viscosity and you wont be able to pull the oil from the pan and you wont have any pressure at start up and your engine will immediately fail.

If your viscosity is too low, your oil pump which is positive displacement will not be able to produce enough flow to cause an appropriate bearing pressure, and your engine will fail at high temperatures.

All of these boundary conditions are described by bearing width and clearance, the sum of all your oil squirters, the volume of your oil pump, and the temperature of your engine.

All of these variables are beyond your control, and are precisely engineered from the factory. You should use whatever it says in your engine manual, and you should wait to heavily load the engine until your engine has reached thermal equilibrium which is the condition in which it is designed to operate.

Just get an oil pressure gauge if you are interested. There is a reason why all the VW engines have a system to heat and cool the engine oil with the coolant. It keeps the viscosity in the correct target range to provide the optimum bearing capacity while keeping the flow high enough as to not overheat the oil and cause coking.

Follow what your manufacturer recommends.

[Vovchandr]

The first number with the “W” refers to the oil’s cold temperature viscosity rating, while the second number refers to the oil’s high temperature viscosity rating.

Low viscosity motor oils that pour easily at low temperatures typically have a “0W”, “5W” or “10W” rating.

Higher viscosity motor oils that are thicker and better suited for high temperature operation. These may be multi-grade oils or single weight oils such as SAE 30, 40 or 50.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_viscosity.htm

Just in case you still don’t get the issue

However, some kinds of motor oil do not act that way. Ideally one would want the viscosity of the oil to remain the same when the engine is hot as when it is cold. So, motor oil usually includes additives that are designed to lessen changes in viscosity due to temperature.

Some motor oils are especially designed to be less viscous (thinner) when cold and more viscous (thicker) when hot. For example, multi-viscosity or multi-grade motor oils exhibit a low viscosity at low temperatures and a higher viscosity at high temperatures.

Home

The idea behind this is to provide a thin oil when the motor is started (usually at a cooler temperature) and to provide an oil of the proper thickness at the operating temperature. These multi-viscosity or multi-grade motor oils can be identified by designations such as 10W-30.

These numbers refer to specifications developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). The “10W” in this example corresponds to the lower oil viscosity when the engine is cold and not running. The “30” refers to the higher oil viscosity when the engine is hot and running normally.

Any questions? :facepalm