ok guys im new to these nissans… please help me out. i dont know if this is the right place but i guess ill find out.
Ok… Im getting a 97 black 240sx le WOOOO
next…
Im goin to do the sr20det swap. Now i am a mechanic and can do the swap noo problem. but im new to nissans and and just have a few questions. Im a dsm guy giving these cars a try… I sold my Eclipse GSX and miss the boost…
Now I called tokyo auto parts. and asked a price on a SR20det engine, trannie, and ecu/wiring harness… Now they ask black top or red. top. I see alot of guys using the red top. but i was thinking on using the black top from some things ive read ive heard there the newer ones… Now whats the difference between them? anything? internals… power handling… Im planning on putting some agressive lumpy cams in and a fairly big turbo. like a 50-60 trim.with external wastgate and all that goodness… Im shooting for 400ish rwhp…
What engine would be better suited to that year of car?
is any engine have a better design in the ports in the head?
any of these engines have a stonger or weaker point…
I dont care about the t25 or t28 ity bitty turbo as it prolly wont even see running time as i will be swaping the manifold, turbo, cams when i do the swap…
please let me know any info you have… and yea…
Im not new to boost I did a best 11.7@119 on my eclipse… it was kinda fast.
so i know all the requirements about fuel, tuning, and all that fun stuff…
Spec R - S15 - 99-02 - blacktop - (T28 w’ VCT and 6-Speed).
S13 Black top Came from 180sx’s post 94 (Garrett T25G turbo).
S13 Red top Came from S13 Silvia and 180sx pre 94 (Garrett T25G turbo).
S14 Black top 94-98 Silvias got an Variable Cam Timing aka VCT was introduced (Garrett T28 bush journal bearing turbo) Only the JDM engine came with a ball bearing turbo.
S15 Black top 99-02 Silvias. (Garrett Ball Bearing T28 turbo and 6 speed transmission).
The redtop and blacktop s13 SR20DET makes around 205hp and the s14
blacktop SR20DET makes around the 220hp…the latest s15 blacktop
SR20DET makes around the 250hp with an extra 6th gear…
all the above will be good for 400hp with some internal modes…s15 SR20DET
is the best choice but it also cost twice then the s13 ones…
for sure there’s way more info about those engines…
I’m about 2 do my swap very soon as well…still deciding on the engine…RB OR SR…
Goodluck…
yes thats what i thought. the black top i was told was 600 bux cheaper then the black top at toyko auto parts.
I was just curious if they would both hold the same power… for example in dsms… the 2g engines 95-99 are complete junk… The rods are smaller… but the compression is a bit higher at 8.5;1 i was just curious if there was any bigger differences then that… so it looks like i will go with a black top with out the adjustable cam timing as i heard its harder to get cams for…
Also how hard… or where would i find the injectors for these engines? they are kinda different then im used to… as i will need bigger then the stock
470s…
you should consider boosting the stock KA24, especially if you like straight line performance. you’re doing a build anyway. A KA-T is torquier and produces its power at lower RPM. it has a semi-closed block deck as well as forged connecting rods (i believe, not 100%) just like the SR. it has a longer stroke then an SR. it can handle roughly 300WHP (on the street)
you should check it out. it’s not the piece of shit some fools think it is.
Speaking from experience in having a 240sx KA-T I’m gona agree with the above comment.
My buddy had an SR20det, stock smic, 7psi and exhaust. I had a KA-T, smic and exhaust. We did a lil rip on the highway and I pulled on him like crazy, past him and despite his gearing down trying to catch up, it didn’t happen.
Everyone usually does SR swaps but if you spend that same amount of money on your KA motor, dam if you won’t have a KICK ASS 240! If you need any direction check out my KA-T thread I posted. It has everything that I used to get a great running car and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Of course, do what ever you’d like because after all it’s your car .
Yes I did a lil considering before about the KA engine. But i think im just goin to stay with the SR engine as it was made to handle boost… and i want some good hp (400 mark) so I think im goin to stay with the SR. I already have the intercooler…its a bar and plate design and the core is 24L x 12"H x 4" T I havent quite decided on cams… prolly somthing equivilant to the HKS 272s or bigger for the SR… And will be definitly be doing tublar manifold with a 50-60trim turbo. running some nice boost… Im still learning these engines. but i ran 24-26psi all the time on the street. that was fun lol…
dude turbo ur ka first check out this site wwwhttp://www.ka-t.org/forums/ stock ka24de can handle 500whp i think the record is 530-ish whp
on 21 psi that was stock internals and great tuning just look up that site its all there there is also a guide to build a ghetto setup lol for under $1000
and I guess since ur shooting for 400 whp thats out of the question but if u dont build the engine your set-up should be more than $1700-$1900.
My cousin bought a s14 with 230 000 on body and 120 000 km engine it dynoed 344 whp at 15 psi and that engine has been running strong
for close to 2 years at 12 psi. This is his setup http://www.son240sx.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25421he bought the car for $10 000
from Original Drift Master aka Radek. Also your car is a 1997 so I guess it doesnt have more than 200 000 km? Do a compression check and boost that bitch man.
haha… well theres two im looking at… one has like 50k miles… and the other has a crazy 200k miles… both are us cars… both are black… I was getting the 200k mile one for a good price cause the miles. but i didnt care as i was swapping the engine and trannie from it… it was a real clean car…
The other real low mile car is apparently really clean and good i still have yet to see it.
I think Im really stuck on doing the SR swap…
It wont cost me much… turbos are cheap now a days. and stainless or aluminum piping i do my self as im a welder/ mechanic… just have to pay for materials…
but keep the ideas comming… hmm who knows. How does a RB swap sound hehe…
No im pretty sure thats true. Im speaking from knowing dsms. the nt 1st gen engine was quite different. it was a 4g63 and the turbo ones were 4g63T. but the nt ones had differences even in the block, the pistons were different of course, running higher compression.
I just dont really know If i like the idea of turboing a nt engine, at least from the dsm world. maybe nissan is alot different. I still have to learn the nissans… and Im sure i will learn alot…
The main points I like on the SR is its made for boost. it has lower compression, and a few things like that. for right now. I dont want to be doing internals like rods, pistons, I will just be doing some aggressive cams. The sr engine will allow me to run higher boost with out getting knock as easy. as the compression is lower. this will allow me to actually run the turbo I want In its efficiency range, the KA engine I would probably be limited to under 10 psi. and that is not really what I want…
nock from higher initial compression is OFTEN due to the sensor being too sensetive or too close to the rank and cam
otherwise it would be impossible to run 11:1 and 25psi like in a race car
diesel’s do 25:1 and upwards of 11psi even the new diesels are like
18:1 an 15psi. (reduced pressures for the new quiet diesels)
compression ratio and forced induction psi are not mutually exclusive…
you have to tune for this…
guys running 15+ psi, in a car that was not origionally turbo’d…are not running their compression ratio at 6:1
T.U.N.E TIGHTEN, UP, NUBE, ENGINE. is the key and can wickedly reduce detonation. from like… CEL at 2500rpm to no CEL even at 8000rpm.
modifying spark timing and injector pressure can reduce detonation.
getting a cam with the appropriot overlap will reduce detonation from hot spotting and high “intake cycle” cylinder temps.
an OE toyota 5sfe (camry 4cyl)can do 8-10 psi with no bottom end mods.
Most honda’s will greneade with 8psi and no bottom end upgrades.
GM’s can’t handle over 5-6 without bearings pins and rings etc etc
Ford’s grenade on their own. 0psi
Chrysler’s grenade at 0psi
(some newer engines (y2k+) may be discluded from that statement)
now were getting into some popcorn territry tho…
help me out here popcorn
the ka is like 9 or 9.5:1 compression, that’s a a very turbo friendly ratio. the block is iron and much easier to machine. on an SR, you need to bolt on a torque plate and bellhousing in order to hone the cylinders.
i can understand where you’re coming from when you say the SR’s are built for boost. however, the differences between a turbo and non turbo SRs are the pistons, oil squirters (not sure about RWD), slightly wider bearings and really not much else.
they are both nice motors and have their pros and cons. the SR has a wider powerband, and with some springs, retainers and cams, can rev even higher to around 8500-8800rpm. but RWD SR20DET motorsets are overpriced. after you spend your $2500 minimum, you end up with a motor that is about as fast as the stock KA. at that point it becomes easy to extract power from the SR, but you will have to spend even more money.
If you take that initial $2500 and invest it into the KA, you would end up with a very nice setup (considering you can build one for under $1500) it would be torquey, and more powerful with a flatter power curve. you cant really rev it that high though. and you cant keep turning up the boost like you can on an SR.
i love them both, but its really a question of application, budget and skill level. the ka suits you, especially if you can fabricate and weld. your main concern seams to be reliability and durability. but the 2 motors are very much equel in that catagory based on power levels, not boost levels.
reliability goes out the window anyway when you’re talking about “400ish rwhp” and that is true for BOTH motors.
Yes for sure. reliabiliy goes for a walk when pushing a engine that far from stock. That was like my eclipse. I was goin through trannies all the time. and constantly working on the engine.
I am a profesional welder as I do that every day… so fabbing parts or intercooler piping and all that is not a issue.
You guys are really making me consider a KA engine now… haha… but the only thing with that is one car im looking at importing from the stated is a 97 black 240 but its got almost 200 miles… and thats alot for turboing that engine. that was my main factor. as i didnt car the miles. the rest of the car was super clean. and a awesome price. not a spot of rust any where.
but im also looking at another one with far less miles.but a little more money maybe that will be my deciding factor. as to what car i get and what i do.
you could definitly do alot with 2000-3000 worth of mods to a KA engine. what really does sound appealing. how are the trannies.? are they different from the SR? in any way? power handling? ratios…
I didnt even know the KA is only a 9.5;1 comp ratio. thats a really turbo friendly lol… hmmmmm the possibilities…
You should look into the ca18 engine too and if u want to run 400+ whp it would be a better choice than ka24 or the sr20. i don’t know much about it I think last year was 93 or 94 for those engines and they came from 180sx and base model silvia they are basically rb26 engine design but 2 cylinders less also its cheaper to pick one up than sr20 or to build ka only thing is I don’t think they have much after market support in Canada
i dunno the finer points but a block that has had added ribs in the casting is usually due to thinning of the rest of teh casting.
ribbing a casting is done for the same reasons as thickening a casting…BUT
it is cheaper on materials and solidifies quicker. Unfortunately it’s more costly to engineer…
often ribbing is done to a proven block that is no longer capable of handling the new power demanded of it.
then they just come out with a new design with thicker walls…
…it’s cyclical…
new and thick
thinner
thinner
thin w ribs
thicker w ribs
new design…then it starts all over again… commonly seen in all aspects of mechanically designed systems…thats why teh combustion engine has changed very little in a very long time…
nobody knows how to actually invent anymore.
sickening
ford does this with their tranny’s…and why they eat tranny’s
but is not allways the case…but the water pump on any 350 chev will bot to any 350 chev…(it may not fit behind the rad but it bolts on…40yrs and they aint changed squat
