no such thing as overkill when it comes to wide wheels and tires 
iād do 12" all around and run 355ās if I couldā¦ that would be dirty.
yeah i have 30mm front aero fendersā¦
your handling would go to complete shit tho and youāll start breaking stuff in the front end
sasha is running 305ās and mentioned briefly to me that he plans on running bigger next year if he can - not sure if thats still the plan.
just because someone that does it, doesnāt mean everyone that owns a S-chassis can do the same thing
heās on a totally different level and his car is prepped to be like that, unless you use the exact same setup as him.
imo, its overkill for those that arenāt gripping for serious like sasha
iād like to get to the bottom of your ābig tires would make your handling go to complete shitā theory.
regardless of sasha being on a different level, we all know hes an awesome driver.
what exactly do you think is done to his chassis in order to allow for big tires to improve his handling where on my car (or any other s-chassis) it would make it go to ācomplete shitā?
Donāt necessarily take this as an argument because I do understand the advantages and disadvantages of wide tires, tall tires, etc. Saying that your handling would āgo to complete shitā is a strong statement though, Iām trying to figure out if youāre just talking out of your ass or if you actually know how it might cause your handling to āgo to complete shitā 
I guess you could consider this more of a ācall outā than an āargumentā ? haha
bring it on samson 
iām pretty sure sasha has custom wheel wells to fit bigger rims/tires
i run 9" wide in front and i rub the wheel wells on stock s14, you will rub even worse on s13 chassis (i think)
12" wide is just ridiculous and is just plain dumb on a street car.
i donāt even think sasha runs 11" in front
when you run wide wheels, it accompanies having wide tires.
wide tires with wide rims = the more traction, obviously.
the more traction in front requires more effort for the steering rack to work to turn those massive rims/tires
also, when turning theres forces exerted on the steering rack, tie rods, ps system and etc that will overwork these parts, rendering them less effective. these parts will also break down a lot faster. (i remember reading on zt that sasha broke his steering rack this season, or it was something else that had to do with steering)
if youāve ever tried running a wide tire, then going and running a smaller tire in front, your steering feels a lot more responsive and in some cases, lighter. lots of of ppl run smaller rims in front like 15" just for the more response you get because of the less effort to turn the wheel, making it crisper and more precise.
just like how you see in most mortorsport prepped cars, lots of them run staggered probably because of some of the facts mentioned above (obviously a lot more complicated but something along those lines).
andā¦that is my reasoning. iām not talkn out of my ass, i have tried running both wide and skinny in front. that is my experience and observation
ps: if im wrong in any info or if iām missing anything, feel free to comment. its always nice to learn more or be corrected if wrong.
now commenting on this, there IS such a thing as overkill when it comes to wide wheels and tires. According to skip barber (professional racing school) a larger/wider tire does not necessarily mean more grip. in his book he talks about tire contact patch, quoted below:
An automobile contacts the road surface through its tires. A tireās contact patch is about the size of a postcard. The contact patch area for any given weight automobile at rest remains constant regardless of the size of the tire.
Sometimes you hear people say that they put wider tires on their car to get more rubber on the road. Wider tires
will change the shape of the tire patch, making it wider,but the total area of the contact patch remains the same.
This is due to the relationship of weight per square inch that the tire is supporting; if the patch gets wider, it will
also get shorter.
you can read more about this, as this is just the tip of the iceberg
John, you just got served bro.
yikesā¦ anyways handling wise, if u have upgraded inner outer tie rods to enable ur turning radius to be improved then u can run wider rims setupā¦ but u stated 12" wide rims and 355 tires? do u know how wide 355 tires are? its like 2 of my tires width togetherā¦ thereās a reason trucks all run single thin tires in the front and double in the back not the frontā¦
for my car i have bv tc rods and stock tierods ā¦ using a x9 rim in front has lessened my turn in angle dramaticallyā¦ so u say handling is lessened.
ok the 12" wide and 355 thing was just a joke obviously, but i would still do it if i could
also, when i talk about big tires like this, I didnāt specify but Iām talking about appearance not performance.
for example, my (to be) street wheels are 10" rear and (possibly) 10" front, at absolute least 9". (dont give me the clearance issue thing, thats up to me to figure out)
my track wheels are 16x8.
as for a 355 tire, i know exactly how wide it is actually. its exactly 355mm wide.
which unless you are running smaller than stock sizes, is not ādoubleā the size of yours, probably not even remotely close to double.
my last street setup was 255 wide and i hated it, too small/weaksauce for my personal taste.
sasha doesnt run an 11" to my knowledge (i believe hes running 10" or 10.5") but i bet he would if he could ;]
this is a pretty retarded discussion for the most part i think
samson you are trying to use stress on the steering rack and tie rods and shit as a counter-argument but this is absolutely irrelevant - I asked how it affect handling, you know, like actual cornering Gās.
Iām well aware of the negative effects wide tires have, I was asking you for an argument proving that youāre actual cornering g-forces will be worse with wide tires.
like i said, this discussion is a bit retarded but we might as well go with it now that weāve started ;]
hehehe i know i just wanted to chime cuz u guys wrote soooo much bahahahha
if i can find 355 tires i will make sure to give to u for funā¦
if were talking about looks wise and not performance u need to get 15-20mm spacers for ur gtr rims to look hot and clear ur coilovers
maybe its me but i just told you a very relevant argument.
iāll make my point clearer i guess.
having bigger rims/tires affect steering as it makes it feel āsloppierā and a less fine tune kinda feel
and no, you did not specify anything about actual cornering g-forces, thats another topic that goes into the actual grip of the tire.
i said handlingā¦handling means responsiveness of the steering wheel and input/output
it might feel like it has more grip with wider tires, but the actual feel of the steering wheel and the inputs you receive as a driver with bigger wheels gets diminished as the wheel width increases, obviously talking about street cars, not forumla 1 or anything like that
its just basic physics as you increase the width of the wheel, the harder it is to turn the wheel and less āfeedbackā you get from the steering wheel.
i think your getting handling mixed up with something else. i donāt know why your talking about cornering and gforces
no pt in going any further since i made it pretty obvious in my prior post and just strengthened it here.
ill let anyone else chime in if they want, or correct me if im completely wrong.
/end discussion
iāll have to disagree that handling means responsiveness of the steering wheel.
to me at least, handling directly translates to a cars ability handle corners and is completely separate from a cars ability to respond to driver input. lets pretend a computer is driving and there is no steering wheel - does handling no longer exist in your eyes?
so when people talk about the feedback of the car and how it responds to the drivers input, the crisp and preciseness of the steering wheel. that falls under what?
how a car can take a corner also falls under handling but is not the only thing.
your thinking only big tracks and taking corners at 120km/hr where you might not feel the difference since corners would be less tight.
how about when people autox in small parking lots with tight corners? with 305s in front im sure a car with a smaller tire up front COULD possible outcorner that car, all things being equally except for front tires.
a wider tire in that aspect will be detremental in this case since precision is a must in tight turns. thus, handling will be decreased.
however, the āhandlingā of a car might not be so obvious on big tracks like mosport where most of the turns wouldnāt be as sharp.
whatever, to each his own.
like i said, im sure there are others out there with comments. iād like to see other peoples perspectives on this issue other than you John, no offense.
to sum up for those who are lazy to read
point of this discussion:
handling will decrease as you increase the width of a tire/rim on the same suspension setup (all things being equal)
Johnās definition of handling: the cars ability to take a corner (he does not believe my definition is correct)
Samsonās definition: the cars ability to respond to the driverās input and how the car sends feedback to the driver, thus allowing the driver to āfeelā the road more. iāve also agreed that Johnās definition is part of handling as well.
we can now go back on topic if 16x8s +30 can fit an s13 chassisā¦
Guys, stop being idiots. Itās not the size that matters. Itās how you use it. My 8 inch all around will take any of your 9.5 to 12 inches on. Anyday.
Iām not trying to transform this debate into something else, but when it comes to tires, thereās more than meets the eye.
wait, iād just like to clarify your autox statement for you
afaik jason rhoades is the most successfull 240sx in autox to date
he has been responsible for at least 1 other autox car that I know of (c5 vette) which has placed first overall in the american autox league of which the name is slipping my mind at the moment. I like to pretend the he knows what heās doing.
his tire/wheel setup was the follow (s13 hatch btw)
front: 18x11" w/ 285/30/18
rear: 18x12.5" w/ 335/30/18
pics below
hopefully this helps you to know that even on tight autox courses big is good. so we have sasha on mosport and calabogie hugh high speed corners with 275 front and 325 rear (i think?) and possibly running bigger all around next season and doing extremely well (outhandling every other car on the field) and jason rhoades running 285 front and 335 rear on autox being successfull there too. in what case in smaller tires tires better? oh rightā¦ rally!
those look like r32 gtrās to me
the 245ās look just about right on that 8 inch wheel
if you got clearence issues, just get some spacersā¦ and then if you are rubbing, just roll or even pull your fenders. who cares
make your car fit the wheels
plus, i think r32 gtrās look good on s13ās
so go and JUST DO IT.
DO IT
wider is coolerā¦ end of story
i just want to be cool
ok you got some pics of this dude and ya
you post his setup of tires but donāt post any of the chassis mods he has done.
is he running a stock rack? or is it customed with less teeth to improve the ratio?
you just took this discussion and flipped it and avoided what it originally stated.
if this dude is running everything stock that affects steering ill shutup.
handling does go to shit with wider/bigger tires, but there are also ways to improve it by upgrading the suspension and chassis components to accomodate such large wheels/tires
if you tell a story, at least tell all of it. iām curious to know his susp. setup.
all in all, i donāt really care at this point since its really going nowhere.
ps: 285s front is childs talk, according to you, this guy should run 355s front and call it a day.
no, according to me 355ās look badass
stop getting defensive/offended, this isnt a hostile discussion manā¦ weāre supposed to be teaching each other our own opinions and theoryās/understanding and sharing knowledge - Iām more than willing to be proven wrong! I would love to be proven wrong because that would mean I learned something new.
also, 285ās as he described is what he ran because it is a popular r-compound size and within his tire budget.
as far as chassis modification there is nothing more than a quick steering rack (which does not affect the cornering ability of a car, the only advantage is to help compensate for human limitations). he also has coilovers, I believe they are either eibach or tokico, I cant remember off of the top of my head but I donāt think that changes too much.
Iām curious, what exactly are some chassis modifications that could be done (or not done) to change whether big tires are good or bad?
tube the wheel wells
thats the most common thing that is done so you donāt rub when u try and turn a big ass wheel near full lock
can you tell me how this steering rack has anything to do with human limitations?
i think its more physics than anything since with a normal rack, the wheels will turn a lot less than a quick one.
its like when having a shortened rack would, if you do a U- turn in a normal residence area you wouldnāt make it. having a shortened one you would. not because the person driving canāt make the turn, its the cars inability to. before the driver hits full lock but still cant make the turn.
anyways what is your definition of handling? how the steering wheel feels between your fingers?
iām only getting annoyed because it seems your not understanding my points that ive clearly stated.
going back to my previous post can you explain or define what people refer to when talking about the feedback of the car and how sharp or slow responds to the drivers input?
ps: i think you misread or misunderstood me from the get go. i guess its cause your definition of handling = cornering. i said your handling would go to shit and u responded with the below:
John: āIām well aware of the negative effects wide tires have, I was asking you for an argument proving that youāre actual cornering g-forces will be worse with wide tiresā