Retirement age going from 60 to 62.... Vive la Révolution!

[traumadog]

I’ve seen this - and it’s interesting to compare how countries react.

In the UK - they’re radically cutting ALL services throughout the country (winning party can do that unilaterally, budget doesn’t need a vote). So much so that even the military is being cut back by about $12 Billion, and many soldiers are being discharged. The UK however, has historically been the most “libertarian” of the EU countries, with most of their economic policies leaning towards the US. Their workweek, while still limited, is longer than France’s and their tax impact is lower - to wit:

US: Annual hours worked: 1792 Tax burden (% GDP): 28%
UK: Annual hours worked: 1673 Tax burden (% GDP): 39%
Fr: Annual hours worked: 1453 Tax burden (% GDP): 46%

So depsite the high tax burden already, demographics will mean that more people will be on pensions proportionally than those who will be able to pay for them, so I see a reason for Sarkozy saying something has to be done. What he’s also doing though is pissing the labor unions off - especially since they see this as eroding their hard-won rights under Mitterand (35-hour workweek, indefinite-contract labor, etc). Now mind you - Sarkozy already functionally killed the legal French mandate of 35 hour/work week in 2008, so the hours worked has the potential to climb. In any case, rioting in France has always been seen as a National Right.

Question is, what will we do here in America to fix the same problems the Europeans are facing?

---------- Post added at 02:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 PM ----------

Oh, one other thing I found:
http://www.understandfrance.org/France/Society.html#ancre839415

In France, you can go on strike for free! After the negociation that ends each strike, one of the labor’s demand is always the full payment of salaries for the days of strike. It is generally accepted, at least partly, and almost always totally in the public sector. In Spring 2003, there were huge strikes of teachers (several weeks) against the decision to set at the same level the number of years of work which qualify for a full pension in the public sector (then 37,5 years) and in the private sector (40 years) : the government did not change its project and it was considered an unprecedented and shameful decision when it decided to pay only a minor part of the salary for non-worked days. For the first time, teachers, who go on strike several times a year, had lost income significantly.

[boardjnky4]

@Joe

If you get a few promotions, are you still going to be able to keep it at 40 hour weeks? How about vacation? We’re the only industrialized nation that doesn’t require paid vacation time. Most people with a decent job get it, but they’re at the mercy of the company to take it away. France requires 30 days, and they actually use it. Every time I try to plan a vacation here half the people don’t have the money and the other half can’t get off work.
I’m fortunate enough to have 40 hour workweeks with one of those days being work-from-home too. I have one 80ish hour week every 3 months for quarter end. One of the main things I look at with posting for potential promotions is how much of a life the person has. Yet in our society, we’re trained that that’s a “lazy” mindset.

I mean, my favorite Congressman, Alan Grayson, introduced a bill into the House to require one measly week of paid vacation per year for companies over 100 employees. He was shouted down with cries of socialism.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/blog/entry/1542/

There’s a reason why my goal in life is to build a big enough lump that I can day trade in a bathrobe from random destinations in the world for a living.

To be honest, I live plenty comfortable at my current salary and could likely provide for a family just fine with normal yearly raises. Personally, that won’t stop me from moving up the chain, but my point is that I don’t need to take promotions to live comfortably. BUT, even at that, my boss doesn’t do much more than 40 hours/week. She has plenty of time to spend going out with friends, spending time with her 3 kids and husband, etc…

I am lucky enough to get between 30-35 PTO days/year for vacation/sickness. I never have to check my available PTO when taking time off.

@bigwoode

I have been living over here for 6 weeks, and have a substantial amount of family members that live near Naples (along with a few in Venice). In Italy, the unemployment rate is substantially higher greatly in part to the benefits that one receives. I spent a full week with my 26-year old cousin in Naples, doing absolutely whatever we wanted. A typical day involved sleeping in, waking up to having a 3 course lunch made for us, going for a ride on the bike or in the car, hanging at a bar (coffee) and associating with other friends doing the same thing throughout the town, we went out every night, got home between 3-5am, then repeated the same process. He told me word-for-word that they do not like to work here. I was a bit shocked the first few days, because I spent my final month in the US working beyond my limits to save for this trip.

It is very true that workers take action to enjoy life a bit more over here. During the work week, many businesses, schools and workplaces shutdown in the afternoon for a “siesta”. This is more common in small towns, but can be found all over the country. Everyone goes home for a few hours, has lunch (primary meal, prepared by the wife) with their family, and then returns to work for the remaining 3-4 hours. Also, the charts representation of Italy refers to something called “Ferragosto” over here, where a majority of businesses close down for 2-3 weeks during Mid-August, and families enjoy a vacation domestic or abroad. The businesses that tend to stay open are typically the ones that bring in their profit from tourism in the bigger cities.

There are also many on the other side of the spectrum who work very hard, and are the primary support for their family. I met an immigrant at the coffee bar who was there every single day we came. We would sometimes see her 3 times in one day. You see this more often in the South than in the North. I haven’t had a chance to live in the North, but the economic distribution in Italy favors North of the Mezzogiorno (mid-country). The wife, as I mentioned, typically stays home, keeps the house clean, prepares meals and goes to the market almost daily. Children are spoiled over here, to say the least, and can live home as long as they want until they are married. And typically, they stay as long as possible.

Carnut is not far off at all with his comparisons between workers. Italy is a bit different than the other countries, however, because material goods are very important to people here (more along the lines of fashion and accessories, as opposed to items for the house - electricity is expensive and they find more taste in decorating and keeping the place clean).

Small businesses over here are very different than back home. I don’t want to stir the pot too much, but there isn’t any presence of Wal-Mart over here. There are more heavily populated towns here as opposed to large/corporate cities, which allows smaller businesses to succeed without Monopoly interference. One of my cousins is the primary distributor of propane in Gragnano (town south of Naples). He works hard, but enjoys what he does, and does not hesitate to format his business to his own desires.

All-in-all, from what I have seen from my time in Italy so far, they absolutely work less hours and in a less-stressful environment. Most of the businesses that are worth running/working for regulate things to their own convenience. I will be traveling to Venice tomorrow, Vienna, Bratislava, Prague, Madrid, Salamanca and perhaps Berlin during the rest of my time here. I will keep my eyes open in the different countries to see how the typical small business employee comes off.

.

Good info, thanks for sharing!!

[Jon]

I would love to work 10hr days and cut it to 4 days a week,having either monday or friday off would be outstanding as most workers drag ass on those days anyway.Do we really only work 40hrs a week? Think about total time dedicated to work that you’re not on the clock for (lunch break,commute time…etc).

[Motocrossx23]

Europe > America.

Sorry, I’m patriotic but if rather live over there.

[Event]

@bigwoode

I have been living over here for 6 weeks, and have a substantial amount of family members that live near Naples (along with a few in Venice). In Italy, the unemployment rate is substantially higher greatly in part to the benefits that one receives. I spent a full week with my 26-year old cousin in Naples, doing absolutely whatever we wanted. A typical day involved sleeping in, waking up to having a 3 course lunch made for us, going for a ride on the bike or in the car, hanging at a bar (coffee) and associating with other friends doing the same thing throughout the town, we went out every night, got home between 3-5am, then repeated the same process. He told me word-for-word that they do not like to work here. I was a bit shocked the first few days, because I spent my final month in the US working beyond my limits to save for this trip.

It is very true that workers take action to enjoy life a bit more over here. During the work week, many businesses, schools and workplaces shutdown in the afternoon for a “siesta”. This is more common in small towns, but can be found all over the country. Everyone goes home for a few hours, has lunch (primary meal, prepared by the wife) with their family, and then returns to work for the remaining 3-4 hours. Also, the charts representation of Italy refers to something called “Ferragosto” over here, where a majority of businesses close down for 2-3 weeks during Mid-August, and families enjoy a vacation domestic or abroad. The businesses that tend to stay open are typically the ones that bring in their profit from tourism in the bigger cities.

There are also many on the other side of the spectrum who work very hard, and are the primary support for their family. I met an immigrant at the coffee bar who was there every single day we came. We would sometimes see her 3 times in one day. You see this more often in the South than in the North. I haven’t had a chance to live in the North, but the economic distribution in Italy favors North of the Mezzogiorno (mid-country). The wife, as I mentioned, typically stays home, keeps the house clean, prepares meals and goes to the market almost daily. Children are spoiled over here, to say the least, and can live home as long as they want until they are married. And typically, they stay as long as possible.

Carnut is not far off at all with his comparisons between workers. Italy is a bit different than the other countries, however, because material goods are very important to people here (more along the lines of fashion and accessories, as opposed to items for the house - electricity is expensive and they find more taste in decorating and keeping the place clean).

Small businesses over here are very different than back home. I don’t want to stir the pot too much, but there isn’t any presence of Wal-Mart over here. There are more heavily populated towns here as opposed to large/corporate cities, which allows smaller businesses to succeed without Monopoly interference. One of my cousins is the primary distributor of propane in Gragnano (town south of Naples). He works hard, but enjoys what he does, and does not hesitate to format his business to his own desires.

All-in-all, from what I have seen from my time in Italy so far, they absolutely work less hours and in a less-stressful environment. Most of the businesses that are worth running/working for regulate things to their own convenience. I will be traveling to Venice tomorrow, Vienna, Bratislava, Prague, Madrid, Salamanca and perhaps Berlin during the rest of my time here. I will keep my eyes open in the different countries to see how the typical small business employee comes off.

.

Nothing I love quite as much as being pummeled in the face by a brick wall of text.

That having been said, I did read the whole thing. A well said post.

[boardjnky4]

@Joe

If you get a few promotions, are you still going to be able to keep it at 40 hour weeks? How about vacation? We’re the only industrialized nation that doesn’t require paid vacation time. Most people with a decent job get it, but they’re at the mercy of the company to take it away. France requires 30 days, and they actually use it. Every time I try to plan a vacation here half the people don’t have the money and the other half can’t get off work.
I’m fortunate enough to have 40 hour workweeks with one of those days being work-from-home too. I have one 80ish hour week every 3 months for quarter end. One of the main things I look at with posting for potential promotions is how much of a life the person has. Yet in our society, we’re trained that that’s a “lazy” mindset.

I mean, my favorite Congressman, Alan Grayson, introduced a bill into the House to require one measly week of paid vacation per year for companies over 100 employees. He was shouted down with cries of socialism.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/blog/entry/1542/

There’s a reason why my goal in life is to build a big enough lump that I can day trade in a bathrobe from random destinations in the world for a living.

@Jon

I would love to work 10hr days and cut it to 4 days a week,having either monday or friday off would be outstanding as most workers drag ass on those days anyway.Do we really only work 40hrs a week? Think about total time dedicated to work that you’re not on the clock for (lunch break,commute time…etc).

I have a buddy who is a Physician’s Assistant at a hospital. He does 3 12hour shifts/week and the dude makes BANK.

[JayS]

@boardjnky4

I have a buddy who is a Physician’s Assistant at a hospital. He does 3 12hour shifts/week and the dude makes BANK.

My problem with that is shifts that long lead to mistakes and that’s a profession where mistakes get people killed. 12 hours in a high stress environment is just begging for a mistake somewhere around 11.5 hours in.

[boardjnky4]

@JayS

My problem with that is shifts that long lead to mistakes and that’s a profession where mistakes get people killed. 12 hours in a high stress environment is just begging for a mistake somewhere around 11.5 hours in.

I do agree for the most part, but it’s super common in the health care industry. I can assure you he gets enough rest the other 4 days that those 3 days are probably OK.

I’ll tell you what, next time I see him, I’ll ask him if it’s super tiring.

[n20junkie]

It’s common for pilots to be on shift for 16 hours+ and their last act of the duty period is to set 10-100,000 lbs of aircraft onto a runway while traveling at 120mph+.

A lot of professions work more than 8 hours, there is a way to do it, and a way not to.

On the big subject. I could care less if Europe wants to work little and play a lot.

But this is America, yes i want my jet ski, race car, plane, guns, lots of property… I like stuff.

I never want a situation where my only hobby is to sleep in, drink too much and be a lazy fuck. That isn’t the life i want to live. If they think that’s living, they can have at it. But it’s not for me.

I live like a fucking king compared to a good deal of Europe, and most Americans do. We can do stuff that only the super rich can over there as normal people here.

I also don’t think that we as a society should pay for people to retire and live off the system for 30 years. If you have a company retirement plan or a private saving account, then you were a big boy and you you can stop working early. But it’s not a fucking right that we have to pay for. Social security is a ponzi scheme, my grandparents put almost nothing into the system, but are doing dam good for a stupid long period of time with it. We cannot continue like we are, and Europe knows that it cant either.

Regardless of what many think, the money HAS to come from somewhere. The economy and US budget cannot be run off hopes, dreams and good intentions.

[ubengineering]

Last time I went to France back in June, I was driving on the thruway there and the road was blocked off by horizontally parked semi trucks on bridges. The drivers protested about their wages, and took their keys and chucked them into the river below. I bet it was a bitch to move them trucks

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

What Would Mohammed Do?

[Motocrossx23]

Grow a beard and call it a religion.

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

So what happens in France if you refuse to work until 62, do you get stoned to death?

[Motocrossx23]

They make you eat cake. Lots of it.

[Gl1]

@Blue Eyed Devil

So what happens in France if you refuse to work until 62, do you get stoned to death?

I’m guessing you just don’t get your government retirement checks until 62.

[Blue_Eyed_Devil]

What really sucks is that their retirement system is so f’ed that in a few years no one will get a check… oh wait that’s us. No wait, we will just print more money. Whew, thank God we have a solution to our own retirement dilema.

[Motocrossx23]

I would like to trade some of this paper for a new house and boat, deal?

[RedGoober4Life]

[QUOTE=n20junkie;2372091][/QUOTE]

idk a lot of Americans’ favorite hobby is watching TV.