Anyone been following the craziness going on over in France?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/10/21/france.strikes/index.html?hpt=T1
Good for them. At least the left will stand up for what they believe in over there and not pussy out and look to go all bipartisan compromise-y at the first sign of confrontation like they do in the US. Ironic.
According to my one professor, there are millions of people protesting there. It’s insane that with that many people, it gets such little coverage over here.
The European way of life is a little different than here. They focus on living life and not as much on the attainment of material possessions. So what’s the point of working your life away if you don’t care about material goods as much. There really is no point.
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It’s covered, but come on would you really want Americans to see that and think about it for a second. Talk about a public melt down if anyone actually paid attention to it. I mean in a country where our retirement age is creeping higher and higher and for what? So we can drive a consumption based economy which profits the mega rich and not much of the middle class.
I personally just see no point in contributing my time to a society or a system that is designed to keep you working so you can make others super rich. It just doesn’t seem right.
But that’s just me. I’d rather be doing something else and enjoying what little time we have on this planet.
I agree completely.
Also, I’ve been thinking about this for a while now, and although Europe has flaws as well, I’d love to spend some time over there.
If you compare the vacation days, benefits, retirement, etc. that they get over there in most of those countries to what we get here, it’s ridiculous. We live to work and they work to live. I hope to spend some time over there with my current company just for the experience.
It’s sickening isn’t it.
I understand the value of a hard days work, but sometimes you just wonder why exactly we bust our asses. And of course social programs they have enacted are stressing a system that was designed to pay for them and might require some tweaking but all in all I think they have it right.
You guys sound like pussies.
I work 40 hour work weeks and enjoy the shit out of the rest of my life. I prefer being comfortable in my house, not stressing over my bills, being able to provide my future children with a GOOD education, having free time in the evenings and weekends. I still go hiking all the time, go boating, enjoy vacations, etc…
Tell me, what is so bad about that? At the end of the day, I live comfortably and enjoy my free time.
Do people in EU not work? Do they work CONSIDERABLY less? Do they stress over paying their rent and bills?
So none of you see any logic to increasing a retirement age by two years when that retirement age was set at a time the average life expectancy was considerably less than it is now?
60 was fine when people were dead by 70, but now they’re living into their 80’s and it’s too much of a financial strain on their retirement system. It seems pretty simple to me.
If you get a few promotions, are you still going to be able to keep it at 40 hour weeks? How about vacation? We’re the only industrialized nation that doesn’t require paid vacation time. Most people with a decent job get it, but they’re at the mercy of the company to take it away. France requires 30 days, and they actually use it. Every time I try to plan a vacation here half the people don’t have the money and the other half can’t get off work.
I’m fortunate enough to have 40 hour workweeks with one of those days being work-from-home too. I have one 80ish hour week every 3 months for quarter end. One of the main things I look at with posting for potential promotions is how much of a life the person has. Yet in our society, we’re trained that that’s a “lazy” mindset.
I mean, my favorite Congressman, Alan Grayson, introduced a bill into the House to require one measly week of paid vacation per year for companies over 100 employees. He was shouted down with cries of socialism.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/blog/entry/1542/
There’s a reason why my goal in life is to build a big enough lump that I can day trade in a bathrobe from random destinations in the world for a living.
I don’t think it has anything to do with being a pussy. I think you have to look at the way you are accustomed to living and the way most Europeans and in this case the French are used to living. They are a first world country but they have a completely different view of life and living. It’s a different culture. I believe that the EU mandates a set amount of vacation time but I’m not sure about that so don’t quote me, that might be regulated by the member countries. (edit: joe posted up a chart above) I’m sure that people in Europe stress about similar things at times but again I was making the case for the accumulation of material possessions which the propensity for is much less in Europe.
I see nothing wrong with working 40hrs a week. I personally work about 60 a week. It is what we are used to here in the US, that wasn’t the point though. The point was the emphasis they put on living their lives rather than working for many comforts etc like here in the US. Of course working a 40+hr a week job does not disqualify you from enjoying free time, but there are only so many hours in a week and on average you spend a third of them asleep. So if you are someone who works 50-60 hours a week and then have to tend with the personal things in life like running errands, standing in line at the DMV, grocery shopping, cleaning your home and property etc…you know things that wouldn’t be generally considered ideal enjoyable use of personal time your quality of life is diminished due to lack of time to enjoy things you want. We are slaves to a system because that is what our consumerist culture has bred. What I’m saying here is that there is a different standard of living that their culture is used to… we don’t live that way. If someone said you weren’t eligible to retire until 80 how would you feel? That’s a lot of life you just aren’t get to enjoy doing things you want to do. It’s looking at life through a different lens, nothing more nothing less. It all depends on what is important to you.
You are right. If the system needs dictate that the retirement age must be increased to keep certain programs that they have also become accustomed to then it should be done. I think in this case we would have to see what it is exactly the French are protesting. They aren’t out there just rioting for the sake of rioting. It’s probably something more similar to the time of the French Revolution when the lay people were sick of being controlled by the monarchy and rich. Most people protesting are not the rich, they are the working class. The one’s who have to make good on government bailouts and wasteful government spending.
That’s because you’re using actual facts called math to create a logical, rational thought. That’s too advanced for many people.
Meh it’s not that, there is more to it than just that. If looking at the big picture and seeing the pros and cons of both sides it’s more gray than just right or wrong and black or white.
DONT WANNA WORK ANYMORE
Requiring a certain amount of paid vacation would reek havoc on small businesses.
No, I think its very black and white. Don’t get me wrong, I’d LOVE to have the type of work life that exists in the EU. My company has a factory in Germany, and when I’m there I’m truly jealous of their work/life balance.
But to arbitrarily say you can retire at 60 and you’ll get a pension for the rest of your life when there’s no money left in the bank to pay it is simply foolish. Exactly what Jay said, people are living longer, therefore paying out pensions longer, ie more money. Either you need more money coming in or spend less of it, its a pretty simple equation.
Well, that doesn’t really answer my question.
How many hours a week do they work?
How many vacation days do they get?
Do people in EU not buy groceries and run errands?
I understand what you’re trying to say, but I’m still not seeing any substantial proof that they work less and/or enjoy “living life” any more.
If you tell me that the average worker does only 30 hours/week where as we do 40, thats substantial proof. If they mandate 4 weeks paid vacation/year, that’s substantial.
And I agree with that.
What I mean is look at where the problems lie by examining the situation and if it is deemed that the reitrement age must come up then ok, however if there were ways to preserve a way of life by cuts elsewhere or controlling wasteful spending in other parts of government then go that route. It’s not like they use their military much 
Other than that I do agree with you. If looking at it that way it’s just dollars and cents.
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Gotcha, I dont have concrete numbers but from discussing with my fiance who lived there for a year with a host family the father worked 40 hours a week, but couple that with the vacation time was around much more.
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Things cost more in Europe.
I have been living over here for 6 weeks, and have a substantial amount of family members that live near Naples (along with a few in Venice). In Italy, the unemployment rate is substantially higher greatly in part to the benefits that one receives. I spent a full week with my 26-year old cousin in Naples, doing absolutely whatever we wanted. A typical day involved sleeping in, waking up to having a 3 course lunch made for us, going for a ride on the bike or in the car, hanging at a bar (coffee) and associating with other friends doing the same thing throughout the town, we went out every night, got home between 3-5am, then repeated the same process. He told me word-for-word that they do not like to work here. I was a bit shocked the first few days, because I spent my final month in the US working beyond my limits to save for this trip.
It is very true that workers take action to enjoy life a bit more over here. During the work week, many businesses, schools and workplaces shutdown in the afternoon for a “siesta”. This is more common in small towns, but can be found all over the country. Everyone goes home for a few hours, has lunch (primary meal, prepared by the wife) with their family, and then returns to work for the remaining 3-4 hours. Also, the charts representation of Italy refers to something called “Ferragosto” over here, where a majority of businesses close down for 2-3 weeks during Mid-August, and families enjoy a vacation domestic or abroad. The businesses that tend to stay open are typically the ones that bring in their profit from tourism in the bigger cities.
There are also many on the other side of the spectrum who work very hard, and are the primary support for their family. I met an immigrant at the coffee bar who was there every single day we came. We would sometimes see her 3 times in one day. You see this more often in the South than in the North. I haven’t had a chance to live in the North, but the economic distribution in Italy favors North of the Mezzogiorno (mid-country). The wife, as I mentioned, typically stays home, keeps the house clean, prepares meals and goes to the market almost daily. Children are spoiled over here, to say the least, and can live home as long as they want until they are married. And typically, they stay as long as possible.
Carnut is not far off at all with his comparisons between workers. Italy is a bit different than the other countries, however, because material goods are very important to people here (more along the lines of fashion and accessories, as opposed to items for the house - electricity is expensive and they find more taste in decorating and keeping the place clean).
Small businesses over here are very different than back home. I don’t want to stir the pot too much, but there isn’t any presence of Wal-Mart over here. There are more heavily populated towns here as opposed to large/corporate cities, which allows smaller businesses to succeed without Monopoly interference. One of my cousins is the primary distributor of propane in Gragnano (town south of Naples). He works hard, but enjoys what he does, and does not hesitate to format his business to his own desires.
All-in-all, from what I have seen from my time in Italy so far, they absolutely work less hours and in a less-stressful environment. Most of the businesses that are worth running/working for regulate things to their own convenience. I will be traveling to Venice tomorrow, Vienna, Bratislava, Prague, Madrid, Salamanca and perhaps Berlin during the rest of my time here. I will keep my eyes open in the different countries to see how the typical small business employee comes off.
Things cost more in Europe.
.
Awesome.