ok…how well can a mustang gt 1999-2004 (not including the new body style) with basic bolt ons and some…I said some, I don’t mean like 5$5,000…suspension work do on a road coarse…please keep this non biased to the chevy/gm guys…
Who cares they are turds :greddy: …thats why ford made the Cobra :mrT:
Seriously I bet it would fare well…just expect to see LS1 tail lights. :finger:
they are just OK…
Ive seen video of SVT contour’s eating up GT’s on road courses.
check the SVTOA site…they do a lot of trak events…and you can get opinions & ideas
you need a decent amount of suspension work for that chassis.
stock GT? its not exactly a road course car… they do farely well though.
The Bullitt and Mach 1, do a lot better, along with the Cobra in the lead
Although a couple thousand bucks worth of griggs or maximum motorsports suspension pieces, and the GT is damn good
some vw dude was talking shit on gt’s claiming that they would get eaten in a road coarse, unless you dropped $5k+ into it…
Peep out Grassroots Motorsports for the build they did on a fox. http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/mustanggt.html
Are you looking to buy one?
not at all…some douche that drives a car similar to sonny’s with a slightly larger turbo, a suspension, sway bars, and a clutch and fw, and a diff. says he spanks GT’s, Rouches, Cobras, everything that is the newer body style, not including the new retro body style…he says that it takes like 5G’s to make that chasis any good, he is talking about new K members and all this garbage, granted he probably is a pretty good driver, but I just don’t see his GTI beating on GT’s as I’ve personally seen them @ a local road course preform well against AWD cars and porsches and stuff…so I figure I’d ask the peeps that drive and read about these cars…Oh, and the LS1 comment :jerkit: … I said don’t be biased you douche
I work with a guy that’s at Beaver Run pretty regularly, he’s got a 3rd gen Camaro with a 450hp small block and a richmond 5 speed. When he can stretch his legs, the HP comes in handy, but he curses the Hondas on the tight courses. Horsepower helps out on the long straights…but speed thru the turns wins the race.
duh…and I was talking about mustangs not camaro’s…
can somebody actually answer my question…or do I have to go to stangnet…
I’m a bit out of my league when it comes to handling upgrades for mustangs, but based on my experience, the NASA Camaro/Mustang challenge cars run about 1:10 - 1:11 around BeaveRun. They’re mostly stock to my knowledge, with race compound tires and probably basic shock upgrades. Obviously they have a rollcage, which stiffens the chassis a ton.
It’ll probably be a shock to you, but that’s about how fast a Civic/Neon/etc. in showroom stock (similar rules) run.
So to actually answer your question, a turbo GTI that was fairly well prepped would probably be quicker. That said, you get all sorts of drivers at DE/Track Day events, so it’d be possible for him to have beaten up on mustangs that should have been much faster. I’ve passed Z06s and a few Porsches at the various events i’ve done. But it certainly wasn’t because my neon is faster.
Mike
unless you have a super neon with like 1500 curb weight…I can’t see you passing Z06’s…they are just too evenly balance stock like 49/51…maybe the driver sucked…which could be the case…thx for your input though…I just can’t see a civic run in showroom conditions same times as a more powerful car with a roll cage and suspension and race compound tires…unless you are refering to the same mods for the civic/neon
You sir are an idiot. He wasn’t being biased. Why don’t you think that’s his honest opinion? A LS1 is going to have easily 50+ more RWHP than a '99-'04 GT and similar stock handling limits. So you take two cars with pretty equal handling (both relatively poor might I add) and give on 50+ more HP where the rubber meets the track and what do you expect? Stock for stock you will see LS1 tailights. Not being biased, being honest.
That being said there’s a huge aftermarket and they can be made to handle very well. Basically (depending on your budget) mimic the cars in the Camaro-Mustang Challenge series. If you have a bigger budget mimic a car in the American Iron series. Hot Rod just did an article with a budget Road Race build-up on a Fox Body but all the same parts and ideas can be applied to a SN95. It’s the February '05 issue. Get it and read it.
As for a really highly prepped GTi beating GTs I don’t doubt it at all. There’s no reason to believe he isn’t making as much (or more) HP at the wheels as a GT in a lighter more nimble package. If the GTi is prepped well and the driver is good it should be a tough contender. Of course a fully prepped GT w/ some extra power would fair a million times better than a stock GT.
And keep in mind all this is coming from a Domestic driver pretty well versed in making late model American cars handle.
I think 5g is the low end of the spectrum when it comes to Road Race prepping a SN95. Figure about $2k just in brakes. Yes you’ll probably want a tubular K-Member, control arms (front and rear), obviously shocks/springs, sway bars etc.
I get all my parts for killer deals and generally score good used stuff (I got my K-Member and front A-Arms for $75 and PA Racing is sending my brand new A-Arms to replace the ones I got cuz they’re the ‘old’ design). Even still I have some pretty good $ into my susp. setup and I still need to do a substantial front brake upgrade. I’ll probably just go C5 for now but if I had the money I’d be putting about $1800 into doing the Prospeed GT2 front brakes. Just an idea of what’s on my car ('99 Z28):
- PA Racing K-Member
- PA Racing A-Arms (heim joints)
- Ground Control Coil Over Kit
- Koni Double Adjustable Front Shocks
- Eibach 500# Front Coils
- Suspension Techniques 35mm Front Sway Bar
- BMR Strut Tower Brace
- Global West Rear Lower Control Arms (dual spherical bearings)
- LG Torque Arm (heim)
- LG Adjustable Panhard Rod (heims)
- Bilstein HD Rear Shocks (3rd Gen. Model)
- 1LE Rear Sway Bar (w/ Poly Bushings/Endlinks)
- Wolfe 6-Point Cage
You can still go out and have a lot of fun without all those mods, but that’s what it takes (plus R compound tires) to begin to touch some of the Euro and Import cars. But I mostly AutoX. Honestly if you’re just going to AutoX not Road Race you can stay nearly stock (do shocks, sway and cage) and stay in Fstock and have a ton of fun. But on a Road Course the stock suspension is a handfull and the brakes are going to fade at best.
-TJ
CMC cars are pretty heavily modified. http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/
LS1 cars aren’t eligable but LT1s are and are limited in HP. LT1s are limited to 250WHP everything else seems to be 230. There’s a penalty chart which, for example states a car making 237RWHP (that is subject to the 230 limit) must carry an additional 100lbs. So power-wise they’re pretty limited.
Most of the cars have to be 3150 min. weight but LT1s choosing not to use a restrictor plate to take them down to 230RWHP must weigh 3480 and if they go down to 230 then it’s 3200lbs.
They’re limited to 16x8 rims and a 255/50 Spec tire.
Most suspension components may be changed but must retain stock mounting/pick-up points. There’s a min. ride height of 4.5" at the rockers (excluding the seam). Front allignment is pretty unlimited.
Basically if my car were a LT1 and I gutted it out I’d have a CMC style setup (I’d have to replace my T-Tops w/ metal panels though :kekegay: ). Out here in Cali I can’t think of one track where CMC cars are running show-room stock Neon times. They spank 'em (as they should). Even at some of the really tight AutoXs I run stock Neons aren’t touching Fstock Camaros. Now, at the little courses highly prepped Neons do clean up pretty well. Equally prepped Fbodies do about as good. Give us a bigger course and it’ll be a different story.
My buddy in his '98 Z28 passed a Saleen S7 at his last track day. But like you and the Z06 it wasn’t cuz his car is faster, he just out drove the uber rich guy w/ no seat time.
I’ll be the first to admit that stock Fbodies and Mustangs don’t handle that great. But it’s night and day once you add a few mods. They can be made into extremely great handling cars, and when not class-limited they can make tons of power. I’m simply not buying CMC cars running stock Neon times. Stock Fbodies I’d still have a hard time buying it since a stock Neon has zero power and about as poor handling as a Fbody. They’re maybe a bit more tossable cuz of weight but they’re pretty soft and have tons of body roll (I had one for a rental not too long ago). Unless BeaverRun is a bunch of 10mph turns back to back there’s no way a stock or CMC LT1 isn’t putting time on a stock Neon.
-TJ
if you are as much of an idiot as I, then you would read that I just want opinions on mustangs not LS1’s…and his opinion is biased due to the fact that I didn’t ask anything about LS1’s…the shorter body of the mustang I think would do worse then the LS1’s…
but thank you for the other details 
Oh absolutely the driver sucked. I’d never be able to pass a Z06 being driven properly.
SSC cars run on race tires and have the safety stuff as well.
I’m just looking at published lap times that i could find for BeaveRun. I was comparing a friend’s CMC firebird’s (the others were mustangs with similar fastest laps) times from the event I was flagging this spring, vs the published SCCA lap records, so sure it’s a bit unfair.
As for me defending the neon’s honor, keep in mind that the average SSC neon ACR is not your typical rental car. Chrysler saw fit to give them bigger swaybars, better brakes, koni struts, etc. Kinda like a 1LE if that parallel makes sense.
makes sense :bigthumb:
And I just did some quick research, a CMC car (obviously better prepped than the ones I saw at beaverun) was in the 1:44 range at mid ohio. That’s a higher speed track, and about 4 seconds quicker than SSC at the runoffs.
Makes more sense. :chug: I didn’t realize you meant the Showroom Stock class not an actual stock Neon, my bad.
4 seconds on a bigger course sounds about right, makes more sense now. Don’t worry I’m not discrediting the Neons. I’ve been beat by a few at the smaller of the two AutoX venues I go to. The bigger one has 3rd gear sections and runs about a 1:10 depending on course setup… sounds like it’s almost as big as BeaverRun!!! J/K of course I’m sure it’s actually much smaller w/ a much lower average speed due to the tons of tight turns, slalom etc. But it is big enough that the FTDs go to prepped Z06s usually or some of the really built C3s. There’s always some M3s at the top of the pack too. But the Sport Compacts suffer at this course.
-TJ
Sorry I just tend to revert back to what I know, and that’s Fbodies not Mustangs. I suggest you go out to Beaver or the North Park AutoX and just observe some Mustangs and talk to their owners. Maybe you’ll get a chance to check out some of the CMC Mustangs first hand.
-TJ
NP…man…I will…I just was hoping to get factual data but I guess most peeps on here just drag race…
and the post above…are you talking about Nelson’s Ledge?