This
+
This
= My Point
I do the exact same thing man. Maybe I am stupid for doing it because of my smaller income, but its not your right to tell me what I value at what cost. The only thing you can say that is valuable (and that im asking) is the actual cost itself.
I think right here is probably a quote everyone should live by. I make my fair amount of sacrifices already, to get to the track as much as possible. I just started.
It really sounds like the OP is just going to dive in to it head first and find himself battered and bloody trying to dig himself out of the hole.
Sure MPD and dmoffit sound like dicks, from the times that I’ve talked to them. I can say I believe more than enough of what they say.
Again experience is experience whether its negative or positive, you’ll learn quick when you just go for it. So listen to emKay and see what happens, if you have a favorable experience laugh in everyone’s faces… If not then oh well…
another note, these positive comments are only positive in your mind because its what you want to hear. you’ll find yourself on fire with that kind of thinking
See… that was my original intention… but thats why I asked… and got their input… and made my counter points… and they made theirs… and now through reasonable (not being a dick) communication, I am seeing most of their points.
This thread did exactly what I wanted it to do and I have been informed from people I wanted to inform me (mpd and such) The being a dick part is just unnecessary.
Again guys, thanks for all the positive feedback so far… keep it commin.
Let me be clear, things like “drive my track car on the street” etc. Are things that both Dave and I have done. We’ve both had cars setup with stupid high spring rates, shocks valved like rocks, spherical bushings, full cages, big power (and low power), racing seats, harnesses, etc etc. We are both speaking from experience that either we have experienced directly or people we track with/work with/have crewed for/are close friends with etc have gone through. Are suggestions and comments are not “OMG I DONT WANT YOU TO GO RACING” it’s a fairly brash form of “hey, we’ve been there, done that, take a page from our books and dont waste your money”. If you’ve got cash to burn (and I mean that quite literally) by all means, jump in feet first. There is a great topic on rennlist right now about what to do your “rookie” race. Basically most of the guys agree that even working on your car yourself the first 5 or 6 races is a mistake and you need a group of crew (paid or not) because you WILL NOT HAVE TIME PERIOD to work on the car should something happen. Let me outline some stuff you WILL need:
Track car
Spare fluids
Atleast 2 spare sets of brake parts (rotors, fluid, pads)
A set of dry weather wheels/tires
A set of wet weather tires/wheels
Currently certified racing seat, harnesses, and cage (and all the supporting bits that go with)
Logbook
Comp license
Tow vehicle
Trailer
Tie downs (+ spares)
Registration and insurance for the trailer and truck (plus maintenance for both)
Mobile tools for track weekends (jack, torque wrench, etc, etc)
Bare minimum. If you’re going racing you SHOULD be bringing a full spares package of varying degrees with you as well, and if you want to be competitive you should be bringing fresh tires and brakes as well. There have been DE weekends I’ve spent $1000+ (not including broken parts) and race weekends I’ve crewed for where people have burned $5k+. It’s very very very easy to see this as “relatively” cheap to get into, but you have to consider all of the costs, time, travel expenses, etc, etc. eMKAY can ride jermey’s balls all he wants, but even he will admit it sounds “cheaper” than it really is when you get into it, especially if you want to compete (and let’s be honest if you are going racing you arent going racing to be a backmarker, even Minardi wouldnt admit that). My point being, ON TOP OF THE COSTS, you have to be able to do it in your sleep, you need to be able to goto the track (and be good enough where it’s one you havent been to) and go out for your practice session and know the mechanics of being able to drive fast without having to think about it. This is where classroom sessions and experience helps a TON. You need to be able to read different lines, practice off line entry, being pinched, race starts, yada yada yada. Anyone who thinks you can pick that up in 2 DE’s and a race school is ignorant. Period.
I don’t say this often, but I don’t feel you have the credentials to even make a counter point. This is really something you should just listen and nod and go about it, with the advice you have been given.
Thats the way I look at it. Its a whole different world
respect that fact that cars are weapons man.
No matter what the sport, any time an experienced athlete is on the same playing field as a beginner, it turns into an uncomfortable position for the beginner. You are going to be nervous, and trying to get yourself comfortable, and you are going to be in the middle of a bunch of experts trying to use you to gain a better position.
You are trying to learn, they are trying to win. Understand that they probably do not give a shit if they hurt you, or fling you off the track while they try to advance.
Your safety comes first man, be careful.
This isn’t Death Race we’re talking about here…
That was my point - and what’s kept ME from actually getting my NASA license yet. I’m sure I could “pass” and get it no problem, but I’m making sure that I truly am ready. My saying you should be cautious isn’t trying to discourage you from getting into this, it’s trying to keep you from getting in over your head - what’s the point of encouraging new people into motorsports only to have a huge attrition rate from crashing or getting scared or the like? It’s not about throughput …
And no Marnie, it’s not - but contact happens. Even if it’s just a love-tap or a case of “He’s using MY brakes to slow HIS car” it can fuck you bigtime if you aren’t expecting / don’t know how to deal with it when it DOES. And it’s “when” not “if” …
not exactly lasertron go-karting either
And the world is flat right. Just because they are experienced does not make their opinions right. I have seen both sides of the spectum in this thread, one saying this is a great way to start and a few saying youre an idiot, do it this way or dont do it at all so who do I listen to…?
And after statements like this, I can understand that I will take an approach that will combine all of thier input. I want to start sooner than what mpd says I should, yet at the same time will take his advice and get myself to the highest point of experience (via hpde’s schools anything) before mid summer next year. If I feel im still not ready then I will just bump it to 2 springs from now.
I will hold off on buying the car this year and with this revised list of what I “thought” I would need, I will again reanalyze my finances and make budgeting adjustments. PS: this list was more or less exactly what I thought it would be, but it is nice to hear it from someone who actually has lived this and verify it.
As stated before, all BS aside, this post did exactly what I intended for it to do… Gain more knowledge from experienced racers as to which way I should go about getting into spec miata racing. From this I have made my own conclusions based on all of your points and am excited to see where it takes me.
Like I said before. There is a 14 year old boy who finished mid to back pack of the NASA runoffs. If I could even make it to that point, I would be more than happy. Doing it my own way is important to me but as long as my own way is smart and reasonable, and I take ever precaution to listen to your voices and gain valuable insight, I cant see this ending up any less than I expect, and I expect it to be fun, dangerous, expensive, time consuming, difficult, ect.
Thanks again guys
Oh I get that there is contact, it’s the implication that people are out there with disregard to INJURING others that I am questioning.
I agree with you for the most part Marnie, but it has happened (RARE albeit). People get the red mist when someone is perceived to be faster.
Case in point, 996 RSR vs 997 Cup in a CLUB race.
BIG punt at the end of the clip. Dont know who received a 13 for that, but knowing PCA probably both roll eyes.
You might also want to try and get in with a crew to work pit for an event or two - I’ve never done it, but based on what Mike and Moffitt have said about their experiences (plus, what I’ve heard from one guy in particular who runs spec miata) this is a great way to start making connections.
I’ve seen 3 people at NASA at SCCA schools get denied their license because they weren’t ready. None of them had any more than the track schools they had gone to, it’s not a requirement as far as a check box, but you’ll have a very hard time not being a pain in the ass OR safe to race with in the eyes of the instructors if you’ve never been on track before.
What is bull shit is thinking you can buy a car and be ready to race. You of all people should know it takes a little practice to be safe and somewhat competitive, not every asshole can jump in a car and be racer x. How many days did you have before you started racing?
How many years did that 14 year old do karting before? I’m sure he didn’t wake up one morning and decide to race. Please do a DE in ANY car, a whole weekend, not an afternoon at Dunnville, and see what committing to the track takes. Also, see how good you really are, it’s an eye opening experience to any novice if they go into it with an open mind (and no ego).
If you are lumping me into the group of “doom and gloom” that is totally incorrect. I would absolutely encourage anyone to get into motorsports. I just want to promote a little caution about jumping straight into it. I spent almost $1000 to “get into it”. The suit, helmet, gloves, shoes, and whatnot wasn’t really called for until I had a car ready for the track, which I still don’t quite have 3 years later. I’ve spent over $5k on track days since then just to drive, not including gas and repairs or other consumables. Then I bought another car based on the class(es) I wanted to run in.
Find someone who already races, follow them down to the track, stay with them all day (except on track of course) and leave when they do. You NEED to see what you are getting into. Then start with a DE, just one, and see if the school is in your near future or if you need more practice. Either way, it’ll be a hell of a lot of fun.
Im gonna throw my advise in here even though all my racing has been on circle tracks. Having a race car and being competitive takes a ton of effort and in most cases a decent chunk of change. Even when I raced karts i would still spend ~5k a season to win a championship, and that is at a local track, with no national events and doesn’t include the price of the car. When I jumped into a bigger car the cost to run a season doubled and while this was a touring series it was still more local than any of the closest road courses. I would spend roughly 3 hours at the minumum every night getting the car ready for race day and have poured enough money into it that it sometimes makes me sick to think about it. it got to the point where I just couldn’t afford it anymore and was forced into selling it last year. I plan on getting back into it again but for now I am trying to get to a point in my life where I can afford it again. I guess the point I am trying to make is that racing takes alot of time, effort and money and before you go and jump in head first you had better have your priorities straight. I would aslo suggest that if you are buying a pre-done race car that you make sure you know what you are buying, I wasted a whole season fixing issues on a car I had just bought because I didn’t do the proper research and failed to realize what I was getting into. It was a very costly mistake:cry:
I’ll try to keep this short and avoid quote/counter point virtual pissing match.
Experience: If you are a quick learner and confident do 2-3 track days before school. The day before school is usually a test & tune day/ open lapping. Get familiar with the car and track that day and then all you have to worry about traffic and flags for the school and not learning the car or track.
The car (school): Rent, rent, rent. School is pretty hectic, you won’t have time to check fluids piss, take a drink, go to classroom, take a deep breath and get strapped back in for the next session. Just rent a slow ITC/ITB car for $1000~$1500 or ITA/ITS SM car for $1500~$2000 and let them do all the work. If you think this is too much money racing is not for you.
The car (owning): Don’t even think about buying until you have done your first school. I am sure your perspective on things will change after you get the first taste. Buy built. I would recommend looking to any of these before spending money on production car based racing: All are eaiser to tow, easier on equipment (tires) and save for the Vee faster.
Formula Vee $5000~$8000
Formula 500 $8000~$12000
Spec Racer Ford $10000~$15000
Lots of invective here about potential fun.
I have been involved in SCCA road racing for decades and been competing for about 10 years. This can be done on a variety of budgets. If you want to just “drive around” you can get a car set up with the req safety equipment and go.
If your budget should remain low Spec Miata is probably not the way to go. Since it is so popular, re-sale price ratio to build-your-own $$ is not very favorable compared something like SCCA ITB or ITC. Also, if you want to be competitive in SM you’ll eventualluy have to spend a lot. My brother campaigns an SM car in cendiv SCCA, running nationals, up front. He has a pro-built motor, tweaks the car constantly, and has had it on the dyno twice this season to try to squeak another 2-3 hp out of it. That’s what it takes to win.
On the other hand, I have driven an SCCA IT car to the track for races and drove it back in one piece. There are lots of reasons not to do this, but back in the days this is what most racers did. I had a Scirocco (if you’re considering this, get a hatchback racer, or pull a trailer with it). Few people do this but a few still do. This would of course be a shitty daily driver, and if you break it you and your car won’t have a way home, unless perhaps you’re very congenial with folks that have extra trlr space. But, as far as the safety argument, if you can’t drive it down the highway at normal speeds to the event you and it don’t belong on a race track anyway.
If the budget is a concern you might get started with used SCCA IT car or something that runs NASA. You may be able to get something that you could put on the track for 3-4k if you are patient and keep your eyes open. You will never build anything for anywhere near that little. Trust me on that.
Licensing is fairly straightforward. Go to a couple schools, show that you understand the flags and basic on-track conduct, and show some competence behind the wheel. You don’t need to be real fast to get a license. Likely if you get out there, you’ll always have someone to race with.