Also lets not forget that a lot of people are swapping out their KA simply because its got too many KM on it so they can’t turbo it as is. From there, buying a stock turbo engine (SR) makes a lot of sence doesn’t it?
so you are saying people are ditching thier used KA engines that they know…for an unknown used SR engine?
re: KA of course the KA can be revved out as well and over bored 
i know for a fact the ka24e can operate at 7000rpm no problem in race conditions in stock form… and it can be overbored 1mm easily
146ci x 7000x 0.5 x 90%/1728=266 base cfm
used 90% since the ka has been ported and polished and is running some big cams, plus has some valve work …he he if we are gonna extrapolate
even at 80% VE it still makes 237CFM which is more than the hypothetical SR and CA…
i think you can see that the added displacement makes a big difference…and you need alot more revs from the SR to overpower that difference…
lets just turbo davids 5.0 now
302ci x6000x0.5x60%/1728=316cfm or approx 211hp in NA form (david what does a stock mustang have?)
anyway…slap a head on it… VE will jump, and cam…change the valve train…ect…
i am sure you can get 80% ve out of it and 6500rpm+
so lets turbo it…316 x2.02=638cfm or approx 425hp
adam,
have you ever done this on FA or on other tech-heavy boards,
i would like to see that, against a bunhc of hot-headed american guys…
heck. adam vs enjuku or whom ever is runnign 500rwhp + on SR’s regularly.
i find the greatest weakness of the KA in debate anyways is the lack of presence and qualified suppoerters.
bahhhh no point FA is so SR crazy there is no point…they would be the same people that would use the SR in an all out drag car over a V8…
much too quite…we need some action…some noise…some fun…
It’s kind of a silly argument one way or another. I’ve always liked the “you do it your way, I’ll do it mine, and we’ll let the #s decide.” theory … because 99% of it is talk. ADAM built a KAT … and it’s laying down very impressive numbers.
He can talk.
And I’m sure there’s tons of SRs making as much or more power. Those guys can talk too …
But hypothetically … if you want raw power for cheap(er) build a V8. True a turbocharged 5.0 would be fancy … those motors are easy to build to 400hp NA with just bolt ons. If you can deal with those icky icky small valve no lift heads.
But corkscrewing every time you hit the brakes hard isn’t much fun, especially if you expect to turn.
I love that “sugared up hummingbird analogy” that’s so me as well.
Simple, it’s your car, your money … do what you want with it.
Hell if you want do a 4G63 RWD conversion and make some serious small displacement power … until your crank walks.
Every motor has its pros and cons, just know them when you choose it,
And yeah, the ca18det in my mid is the 2nd best 4 cylinder Nissan ever made, and would hands down be my choice with price and availability. Well, I’d just put the DET bottom end in my SOHC and be done with it …
It’s like when people ask me for a car length because of displacement.
Yeah, I’m going to give you 4 car lengths because I chose something with almost 7L of displacement.
It’s my fault you decided to start with half as many cylinders and a 1/3 of the displacement. lol
But no way am I going to try and shoehorn a big block into the Sylvia.
It feels right at home wrapped in 3,800lbs of metal.
4.34, x, 3.38
hmmm … 413ci x 6500 x 0.5x60%/1728 = 466cfm = 307hp or turbo 621hp
But that efficiency is awfully low for the build up.
Damn, gotta get started on the Mega Squirt
If you want cheap aftermarket support, buy an SBC or 5.0 … stay away from Dodge lol The Nissans of the domestic world.
And in reality, I think the 87 Cobra 5.0 (most powerful 5.0 from factory) made ~180 whp … I think they were advertised at 225 or higher.
Older carby 302s from the 80s were around 140 hp.
I choose SR as a batter motor, its already built from the facotry for boost, and i dont have to worry about going on a 4 hour trip with it. I like reliability.
If I buy a car with a KA that already has 250000km and often more, I don’t know that engine at all.
So my choice is between spending $$ on a KA that I don’t know, or spending $$ on an SR that I don’t know. I take the SR.
i agree that so far all we have seen is SR’s making huge power…not too many high power KATS to be seen…
i agree with that statement…100%
but lets not confuse DYNO QUEEN high horsepower pulls for what the engine can withstand and produce in reality and on a continous basis…these are two vastly different things…
but i will concede to the SR’s that so far they have been the only real high power vs the KATS which tend to hover in the 300-400hp range…
a real issue is…and would only be known by really looking at the dyno charts…would a 500hp high strung SR be faster than a 400 or so hp KAT?
it is very decieving to just look at peak power numbers and say…the highest horse power car is the fastest…when really in a race the more plyable powerplant would be better and faster since it would be vastly easier to drive and extract speed from on the race track…
does anyone have any 2 high power SR and KAT dyno charts we could look at , and see what lies below the dyno curves…where is the torque and horsepower? is it useable? and for what RPM range
wonder what boost levels those were at?
So the good news is I didn’t burn a piston on the way home.
The bad news is I found some dry pavement in 3rd and the clutch started slipping ;-(
-Martin.
I have to agree 99.9% with ADAM on this battle between the SR and KAT. Long term reliability put aside, the KAT wins the battle.
The SR is very good in stock form, but I believe that a KA can be build to handle great consitant power. If money was not an issue, the KAT is a powerhouse. But then again, upsizing to a 6 or 8 cylinder that won’t make the car too front heavy is another option with money. But that raises a whole new set of issues.
Bottom line… I’d take those 400 cc of displacement anytime.
so i did up this little chart…
ka24det 17PSI BOOST (not verified)
3k 170TQ
100HP
4K 300TQ
225HP
5K 300TQ
275HP
6K 270TQ
310HP
SR20DET AT 17PSI (not verified)
3K 110TQ
70HP
4K 200TQ
160HP
5K 310TQ
295HP
6K 270TQ
320HP
7K 230TQ
328HP
KA24ET 14.2PSI (MY OWN ENGINE boost verified)
3K 165TQ
105HP
4K 265TQ
210HP
5K 270HP
260TQ
6K 190TQ
270HP
i would say out of these 3 engine dyno’s the SR has the advantage since it has a good power range from 4k-7k redline…AS THESE ENGINES ARE SHOWN ON THE DYNO’S…this does not really prove anything since we cannot verify they were taken on level operating conditions
now what we do not really know what boost levels these were taken at (i know mine was at a peak of 14.2 cause i have a print out of the boost log since it was being measured as well)
that being said…the KA has a bit more “grunt” in its low power band, so coming out of the corners would most likely have an advantage…then again its going to depend on whats happening with the gearing…and we don’t know if these dynos were taken with the same boost levels
(IMO i don’t belive that they are the same boost levels since the ka24det seems to be a bit low vs the SR if these are taken at the same boost levels)
neat anyway
Hell if you want do a 4G63 RWD conversion and make some serious small displacement power … until your crank walks
Not really. Just get a 6bolt from a first gen DSM. No crank walk.
This is the best 4 banger around and I just find it semi amusing that people put so much money into engines to get 275 hp and 300hp.
I know one guy who made 291whp on a 1st gen dsm with just a rebuild. Stock head and a stock 14b turbo. No standalone, no porting, just fresh build and a potentiometer to tune fuel ratio(crudely). There are dsms in Toronto that cruise around on the weekends looking for WS6 and Vettes…
As for built internals(you don’t need them till over 400whp)…I know a few that run 400plus on Pump gas and well over 550 on c16…these are street legal cars. Radar tested to in excess of 275kmh.
I had a ride in one that made over 400 (he’s now over 500) and it pulled like a sportbike.
It takes so little to make 300hp on this platform, that if/when I return I want to put one in a 2nd gen RX-7. That ought to give the Rotary boys an anurism. :twisted:
can anyone find some dyno stats on the ca with some boost???
i havenot been able to find anything. i want to se it comparison
Adam and I had this KA vs. SR discussion an LONG time ago on FA.
I have no doubt that you can build the KA into a powerhouse. It has a lot of potential. The SR is however superior in many ways, much as the RB is to the 2JZ in many knowledgeable eyes. Not on the surface but in underlying ways. Coolant channels, Flow:Displacement ratios etc., oil squirters etc…
However the whole SR20det craze is overdone.
Either way, if I have a 240sx again I will not be having either engine in it.
Likely a 7mgte with a T04, and the supporting mods. Peace OUT!!!
There was a guy on FA that had a CA18 with 380+whp. It was a solid piece. Too bad we can’t get the FJ20et here.
kadet all the way 
Thats why I don’t like the CA anymore. You need mad coin to build one up. If I have couple grand to waste, I’d rather rebuild the KAE head and boost the engine I have.
Adam, would that be feasable? The bottom end of the SOCH can take 7 pounds np right?
Now, I would rather have a KAET over SR because of the torque. 2.4L compared to 2.0L. But the SR has more potential in my eyes.
Just curious Adam, but what does your fancy pants math say about a 2.2L SR? Not that I would ever plan on doing something like that…no, not me… 