oh ur not …
Mike is an evil evil man
Ok im gona come in and shoot off my mouth about something i know little about. But in my OPINION (<---- key word here) money is an issue for almost anyone on this site when it comes to there cars. Which is in my opinion why people opt for the SR it reletivily cheap 3 grand and u have a 210 HP car at stock boost… its relayable and normaly has under 80,000km on it and good compression clean and well taken care of. parts are numorus and easy to fine… normaly in stock where ever. KAT ur talking about a engine with reletivly high KM? not made for turbos stock. custome fab parts. and if something goes wrong i bet there a bitch to trouble shoot. but in the long run i think the SR is a better choise since it will most likely out last ur 240s frame\ body then it dieing.
once again its MY OPINION ( as flawed as it may be)
BTW id like to see a KAT with a T67 slapped on there
Good call newb. Also peoples opinions are very biased due to their mechanical ability levels and availability of parts in their area. etc,etc.
But Price is a biggie.
i don’t think redtops dyno atock 210rwhp? more like 170-185rwhp…from what they feel like driving them…
:shock:
3 grand is “cheap”???
let me rephrase that … $3,000 for 170 hp is cheap?
lol here’s a dyno sheet from a ca18et (not DE) powered S12 running 0.75 BAR (11psi) out of a T25 (bolt on replacement for the T2, easy to be had for under $400 off a Saab 9000) … no intercooler
if you can’t read or do the conversions …
Final tally
190 HP @ just under 6,000
178 lb/ft @ 4,500
These motors are available domestically, will pass smog, and can be bought for a couple hundred bucks.
So if you think $3,000 is cheap for 170 hp
What would you call 190 hp for probably ~ $1,000 ?
Or if you want to get serious with the motor, import a ca18det take the crank and rods, sell the rest to someone that broke something on their ca18det. Swap those big beefy suckers in, slap on a T3, FMIC, boost the crap out of it.
We have a member in the UK who is putting down 326 whp with this combination.
Stock MAF/ECU/Injectors will support over 200hp.
Hell, guys have hit 200 whp with just an FMIC and MBC.
And FJs can be found … if you’re willing to pay. I’ve seen them for around $4,000 cdn to your door.
Gotta be imported from Australia though.
Hell, I’ve seen NA FJs for sale for $125 AUS. Buy the 24 stroker kit, and enjoy your 320+ NA hp.
Another member of ours is running that combo in his S12 Rally car.
i was refering to 3Gs for a redtop SR20det wich usualy have 205Hp stock
and thats with an upgraded intercooler so u can turn up the boost to 12 or 16psi and have around 250 or so ish? (dont quiot me on that one!) but i think thats around what u would be at. And the name of the thread was SR20DET vs. KA24ET not CA18et… so 3 grand is reletivly cheap… another 800ish and u could get a T28… but i have limited knollage of the KAT so once again its all IN MY OPONION… which is key because im not trying to say im right… just to give a “newbie’s” point of veaw… because im debaiting the KAT vs sr20… for my 240…
yeah, but that 205 is flywheel or “net” horsepower.
Which is is about 170 whp on a 60,000km transplanted motor once you get all the parasitic loss accounted for.
I know the thread was on KA vs SR … I just used the ca18et as a comparison against a $3G SR20
And what I vs other people consider “cheap”
And “turning up the boost” to 16 would be murder on a T25. They’re pretty much out of efficiency by 12 PSI, at 16 it would be a blowtorch.
And it’s not like there’s a boost “switch” that takes more $$$, and likely a reflashed ECU to take full advantage, upgraded intercooler … etc etc.
So pretty much you’d need to buy the same stuff for a KAT as you would have to to build a strong SR20.
Unless you’re the type to use ball and spring MBCs and hacking MAFs to run larger injectors …
Which I doubt you’d start off with an SR20 if you were “that type”
Like me, y’know, cheap and broke.
point taken:)
ya well im weighing my choise on KAT vs SR for my car on this post…
if someone would mind posting links for parts and shit for the KAT?
I’ll give one reason the SR owns the KAT. Time, that’s right. Pavel’s build up is a good example of how a drool worthy SR-S13 can be built by amateurs in about a week. That includes buying the car! LOL While the KAT guys are on the hoist trying to get custom manifolds built the SR can be doing shake down runs. One week. That’s all it takes. Plus I like the convenience of off the shelf parts. 'specially when they are shiny and JDM.
BTW Phil A., I look at the SR stroker kit more as a way to freshen the bottom end and get a little disp. kick.
P.S. I’m still waiting to see a running CA18 in SON, let alone one that’s fast. It’s all fine and nice to bench race an engine but until it comes out and kicks my ass it’s all just a bunch of crap. For example Pavel has shown me some videos of turbo Lada’s back in Mother Russia :lol: Sure they can run 12’s…doesn’t mean Lada’s aren’t heaps of shit.
like bomex just stated…
the SR is a quick fix for those who have a need for speed…
like many others… im looking for cheap, reliable and an all year 'round engine.
thats why im leaning toward the sr boat.
even tho the sr “hype” is done, and almost everyone has one, that just means there are more available parts…
anyways thats just my opinion
anyone see the Lada modified by Lotus in top gear?
COUGH
RB25DET
END COUGH
its not cheap, its not easy, but it is possible, and will hand the SR, KA, and the CA their asses!!
I will prove this all to you, once i save the coin.
or if you really wanna blow the doors off the v8’s, and have alot of coin RB26DET, or the mighty RB30DET???
Maybe this is just me, but is a “custom manifold” really that big of a draw back? Anyone with a MIG at their disposal, or a case of beer for a friendly machinist can get you a manifold a lot quicker than someone can import an SR20DET 
I’m making mine … there’s a ton of good examples of DIY turbo manifolds out there. Someone here with the right tools could carve out a nice niche for themselves making turbo manifolds.
All materials in, you could make one that would put any factory log-style manifold to shame for ~ $100 using all the best stuff … and you can do away with Garett flanges for good.
As for CAs running in TO, I got a pretty respectable SOHC that’s always willing to play … I’m probably going to be close to 250whp by spring time … if I don’t pop the motor first … oh yeah, inner monologue … inner monologue
You can squeeze out an insane amount of power from any motor.
The only limiting factor is the strength of the block/internals as is, and
money. And quite frankly, the SR has just so much potential, and a
larger market out there (at least on this side of the country), then say RB or CA.
It also depends on how you want this power delivered, depending on how
you race the car (drag, auto-x, etc.).
For most of us, money, and know-how is an issue, and by far the easiest
route for most is the SR. At least for me.
sorry about my little biased blur, i’ll get back on topic.
The main advantage from what i have been reading for years about this debate, is that the SR is a proven daily driver.
The target market for motor swaps, generally are young, single (meaning not married) and have decent jobs with money at our disposal (since most still live at home). Now there are the exceptions, die hard car fans for life, who are a little older, have a family and a home to pay for and look after, and also have coin to play with.
For these reasons, people will have different preferences, and a different route to gain power. Adam, your KAT will probably spank most SR’s in the area. And I know you put the car on the road last summer, but honestly, do you think your car would be a decent, reliable, daily driver? It may be, but it hasn’t been proven.
The SR has been proven, time and time again, on just about every continent on this planet, to be a high HP, reliable, turbo 4 banger motor. The KAT?
For this reason, if i obtain my goal of the year to pop my KA24DE (man, I love this motor, it just won’t break) and if i am not in the money position to buy an RB, i will most likely source an SR. Reason being? It beats rebuilding a KA motor with over 200k on it, plus sourcing a turbo kit (well over 3g’s + install) and all the other goodies (IC, bov, custom piping, manifolds, ect.). If I was to go the route of custom everything, I rather do it on a inline 6, single turbo set ups (RB25 clips have been selling for 3g’s).
To be honest, the KAT route seems way too expensive, unless you have crazy hook ups. If you don’t mind me asking Adam, how much did you spend for your set ups (not including repairs, just upgrades +labour).
we are talking about performance…not reliability or how easy it is to do something…
i would guess i have about 8-10k in the engine and turbo system…and maybe about 15k-20k in the car total…not including the cost of buying it…
but this is not being built as a street car
I read on FA this guy with a stock SR20, FMIC, and a new exhaust, that is it, turning the boost up to 15 PSI. (similar to the mods in the CA18 dyno you showed before) and he was getting retarded numbers like 280.
so at 7psi its about 175 completely stock! look at the difference just alittle will do.
I’m a bit lost in the dark here.
Unless Adam added an extra Valve in his engine, my KA24E only has 3 valves per cylinder?
here is my cost of a 7psi KA24DET
Turbo:
- 60ar intake and 63ar exhaust t3 with O2 housing $190 Shane
- New center section with turbines $234.72 Ebay.com
- New hard wear for turbo $35.23 Ebay.com
- New Turbine housing $213.63 Ebay.com
- Turbonetics wastgate 5psi and up $105 Ebay.com
- 86ford T-bird turbo coupe 2.3 gasket kit $30 Ebay.com
- Oil return flange $48.11 Ebay.com
Oil lines:
- Oil line in and conectors $144.83+ 14.94 PI
- 1/8bspt – 1/8npt Part# 2269 Autometer for oil pressure sender $24.13 PI
- 1/8npt – 1/8npt $2.18 CT
- ¼’’ T fitting $3.96 Napa
- Drian line $100 Brefasco
- Oil bung + welding to pan $30 J&R
Fuel:
- Walbro 255lph $160 from Marcus
- 370cc SR injectors $200 Marcus
Intercooler:
- Saab 9000 IC $85.36 Ebay.com
- New IC pipe $100 Building box
- 1 Foot of 2.25” High Temp hoses (blue) $38.13 Ebay.com
- 2.75-2.50 adaptor $30 PDM
Gauges:
- Fuel pressure gauge 100psi $53 Ebay.com
- Fuel pressure gauge install kit $78, $11, $3
- Boost gauge $42.26 Ebay.com $5(for hose) $3(for “T”)
- Oil pressure gauge $76.43 Ebay.com
- Oil pressure gauge SS line $78.10 Ebay.com
- A/F Gauge 48.30 Ebay.com
- Greddy EGT $300 Automotive warehouse
By Pass Valve:
- Rotora BOV $150 Bing
- BOV 3” x 1 3/8 $31 Fluid Hose & Coupling (905)670-0955 (not used anymore)
Water lines:
- Water lines $12.36 CT (1/2” heater hose)
- Water line attachments 5.50 + 20 + 35 CT
Exhaust system:
-
Manifold $550 J&R, (905)866-6721
-
Ceramic coating $200 Fireball Coating (519)925-6342
-
4 Gaskets $37.40 Nissan
-
3” exhause with high flow cat and Flow master muffler, 2.25” Down pipe, Temp IC Piping $1000 Ken’s Canadian Stainless Steel Exhaust (519) 537-2100 (Woodstock, ON)
-
Miscellaneous: $200
Total: $4558.57
Still to come:
Tecktom chip, Install, Tuning, Dino with A/F $1200 Neetronics
Water Tempatuer Gauge $70
Oil Temp gauge $70
Oil cooler $70
Bigger radiator $300
Sub: $1710
Other Parts:
- Boost Controller $55 Ebay.com (not used)
- 96 300zx TT fuel filter $12 CT
- Angle rings (for Gauge mounting) $26 PI
- Colder spark plugs (28) (BKR7E1X-11 NGK iridium 1X) $40 PDM
- Nissan Oil Filter $11.71 Nissan
- Mobil 1 Synthetic oil $30.81 CT
- Prestne Coolant $14.44 CT
Sub: $189.86
when your done i want a ride. im still debating what to do about power but i want to see each in person