The “homers” are out in full effect. Last 2 posters combined post count is 9 :haha
Dyno time is not necessary to make a car run properly or go fast. A lot of people have their car tuned on a non-load bearing dyno (dynapack, dynojet, ect) that doesn’t closely reflect real driving condition when the car is on the road. Road tuning is a very accurate way to tune a car if you don’t have a Mustang/DynoDynamics/Load bearing dyno at your disposal. As I stated before, Jay had well over (this is no exaggeration) 100 passes on the stock motor/stock turbo w/o having any issues at all. Take it for what it’s worth, but it’s impossible to simply discount the idea that the assembly/installation didn’t have anything to do with the STI’s demise.
Holy crap your retarded. I never claimed any tourque sequence, but as a tech every car has one and you follow it when installing headbolts. I never said anything pertaining to engine type or make. Working on engines is a simple process, if you blow a headgasket due too detonation then guess what? You blew it because of detonation period. Fucking end of discussion.
p.s. ass tuning is for dumbasses
To my knowledge there are 2 ways of tuning ignition timing. One is to do consecutive pulls on a dyno while incrementing the advance. When you get to the point where you no longer gain torque you know you are at the threshold. This is the preferred method and is not possible without a dyno.
The 2nd method is to monitor your knock sensor. On a highly modified, methanol intercooled setup I would be worried that you don’t pick up the knock in time or at all. Even without knocking, too much advance will send your cylinder pressures through the roof and promptly lift heads.
A Dynapack has the ability to load an engine harder than you can on the street. You can effectively hit every cell on your map.
my bad, you just graduated highschool, so geometry is fresh, i dont deal with it ever, and graduated 6 years ago. but its also simple to find it on google incase i need to get the total area of a circle, thanks.
Apparently you missed the entire section I mentioned about all the logging tools for Subaru…especially Utec in Jay’s case. You get “road dyno graphs”, which, accurate or not, provide the same sort of “tool” that an actual dyno would. So you can make incrimental changes. When I tune and Evo or Subaru, if I don’t see a substantial gain from timing/boost/ect…I back it down a tick once I’ve gone as far as I can to ensure safety and call it a day. There are SEVERAL members on this forum who I’ve personally tuned on the road and they have never had a problem. Heck, they’ve even made very good power on dyno’s with very smooth curves. You do not need a dyno to tune accurately. As I pointed out before, real world tuning with real world conditions is often times FAR more accurate than a non-load bearing dyno that can not simulate driving conditions. This is not “butt dyno” tuning, this is proper tuning with proper software and equipment. Probably as advanced if not more so than a lot of software that comes with a lot of dyno’s that people use to log and monitor vehicle conditions during a pull.
The two benefits of a dyno for tuning are consistency in the pulls and baseline corrected/uncorrected numbers to aid you in the tuning process, though are not needed to make a good tune by any means. Dynos while nice, are certainly not the end all of tool of performance tuning. I’ve been tuning Porsche/Audi turbo’s for years and up until the recent upcomong of Moon I’ve never used a dyno to tune any of my cars. I’ve seen some of the nicest AFR/torque curves come from cars that have never been strapped to a dyno for tuning. Many would attest to the 3.6 Turbo curve I threw down @ Moon last year, that was street tuned the nigh before heading up.
Circuit track tuning is highly common amongst many old Porsche owners, from old CIS/K-jetronic to more modern Motronic DME’s, and one thing you cannot replicate on a dyno. Put a consistent driver in the seat around a course while passenger tunes. Dynos have thier place in this world there’s no denying that, lets just not get all hell-bent stuck on thinking they’re they only good or proper way to tune a motor.
When it boils down to it it’s all in who’s tuning the car, not where and how…as in whether the tuner knows WTF they’re doing with that specific car, software, and engine setup at that point in time. Over the years I’ve witnesed alot of “top tuners” throw out some really shitty code/tunes on the knifes edge of destruction that were supposed to be expertly dyno tuned while grass-roots bakyard folks throw down a perfect tune just sitting in the streets. :ponder
Just my input on that whole subject as a whole. Not trying to get anyones panties all in a bunch over it…
I prefer to do AFR on street and set the timing on the dyno. My dyno guy basically does the same thing and then drives your car on the street to re-test everything. He also does street tuning without a dyno assumin the car has the necessary tools. But, no matter what, it’s always conservative.
I completely agree Adam, tuning is at least 90% on the tuner and 10 percent, if that, on the tools he is using. A dyno is useless without an experienced person operating it. I’d rather have morgan tune my car on the street than give it to a clueless person with a 60k dollar virtual paperweight. In our area there is no reason you cant have both. there are a handfull of tuners in the northeast with dynos that are experienced and capable of tuning 95% of these road race/street/strip cars we see around here. FWIW we always take the cars out on the street afterwards for drivability, IE decel, tip in, touch up partial and WOT afr’s if needed. It’s a combination of street tuning, dyno tuning, and an experienced tuner that makes a car run top notch, theres no reason you can’t have it all.
Celtic, based on what Ive read here you endorse street tuning for your customers yet you choose have your personal cars dyno tuned, any reason why?
Since a dynapack isn’t a load bearing dyno, care to explain more on how it works then?
About Jay’s car, what I’ve been told the car was run at temps(10 degrees) quite a bit colder than it was tuned for, it was seeing higher boost pressure’s than it had ever seen before likely due to the cold. so much pressure that it blew off one of jays charge piping at the same time the head lifted. odd coincidence they happened at the same time.
My personal car was dyno tuned - then road tuned. Which even in my case the maf needed some minor recalibration up top on the road vs on the dyno. Some people don’t want to pay for dyno time - so obviously it’s less expensive for them to pay me to tune their car on the road vs renting dyno time.
Dynapack removes the wheels and bolts the hubs to the hydraulic boxes that emulate load. The biggest problem is that you’re removing rotating mass which (imo) directly effects the entire powerband that you’re tuning for. I’ve never seen a car make a powerband anywhere near what its been tuned for from a Dynapack when put on any other dyno. Which, in my experience, makes it difficulate to calculate exactly what load cell I’m tuning for…I’ve had to essentially shift a whole setup due to the resistance of the wheels on the road. But hey, what do I know. I’m just some guy that knows a little bit about a little bit. Ya’ll are the “professionals”.
didnt you say earlier the dynpack is a non load bearing dyno. if the dynapack cant apply a load how is it that we can tune a car in steady state and lock it at any rpm and increase the load applied to reach cells not normally reached during a WOT pull. during steady state you can go WOT and the dyno applies an opposing load that will not let the engine spin any faster. so while you are tuning you increase the throttle incrementally and the dyno in turn applies a greater load on the engine. you dont see this type of tuning during WOT pulls.
justin by your logic if you tune a car on flatland, and then the car is now going up hill with an increased resistance on the engine you will need to remap the entire ecu for the new “shifted powerband”.
i think you seem to be confused in how the dynapack actually works, and its abilities. i would like for you to come down to the shop sometime and we can show you some more information about it. i think you would be surprised.
Wow, I wish I had caught this right after this first post. I just heard about this thread. I am gonna respond to this one and then read the rest, cause I hear shit gets real good in a couple pages.
Indeed what Morgan says is true. 100% of it. I took this as basically a “fuck off” considering the last time we had talked you had said “Don’t worry, I’ll work with you on this”. I felt that this was you backing out of what you had earlier said, and leaving me to start over with somebody else, a car with no engine, and a box of parts. I did use those exact words to two people and for that I apologize since it was my interpretation of the situation and I made it sound like you said “Hey jay go fuck off” lololol in both cases it was backed up by a more detailed explanation of the events (which matches the above) but those intitial words of mine obviously stuck. I did not expect any of this to make it to the forums though, I talked to 4-5 people and was pretty clear that I was not going to make a single negative post about Synapse despite my various problems and doubts. Because it’s just not worth it and it benefits nobody.
Hmm, I read this whole thread over a couple times and besides the usual off topic comments and people who don’t know what they’re talking about, I don’t have much to say on the issue. Synapse has been mature in their responses so I will do the same. I will say that I had a number of earlier install problems (avcs oil lines not tightened, loose ic coupler, downpipe hitting the frame, injector clip not seated properly) and one build related oversight that really tweaked me out - they didn’t check for piston/valve interference after I asked them to check, then told me just to not use AVCS (variable cam advance). And when the cam broke previously, I heard my comp/leakdown numbers along with the “it had to be massive detonation” story second hand the day before I heard it from Morgan. That made me lose trust. The fact that the massive detonation story hit the lot before the heads even came off, before they told me, AND it was wrong. So when the motor came apart and the bearings/piston tops looked mint I felt that detonation was very unlikely. Subarus spin bearings like its their job and the HG failure with no signs of det was even more far fetched than my earlier cam failure. I felt that the scuffing was from a combination of having p/w too tight (these pistons are supposed to sound like a diesel and you could barely hear em) and driving with the hg blown for 1/4 mile after managing to un-hydrolock cyl #2.
Besides the above mentioned issues, the disagreement about potential causes for this failure, and me being told to take my box of engine parts elsewhere, I had a great experience at Synapse and even made an effort to recommend their services to other suby owners. Sucks for everybody.
When the cam had broke, the initial leakdown numbers were pretty bad and indicated widespread cylinder/piston/valve damage. Detonation seemed likely, this was an initial reaction before anything came apart. Having detonation does not mean anybody is a bad tuner, there are obviously a million ways it can happen…failing fuel pump, boost creep, bad tank of gas etc. Now when it got taken apart it was discovered that the cam had broken and the valves has lots of torco soot on them causing high leakdown numbers. It got 4 brand new cams under warranty, I thought everyone was happy.
We are not directly blaming anyone or anything for the headgasket failure. Its not often that I find signs of detonation on piston tops, but I have seen it crack pistons (oem cast), rings and cyl walls, blow headgaskets and damage bearings. each situation or engine seems to have different end results depending on many different factors. I still believe that it was not a head stud install issue like some are saying, but if people want to think otherwise they are entitled to their opinion.
Regarding the avcs issue, I had done some research and found there was not really anyway to set the stock avcs gear up so that I could change the timing and check clearances. I had talked to cosworth and they told me that it was not going to be an issue with that particular combo. I later discovered that adjustable cam gear for a wrx could be used to set up timing, but they were expensive and only a couple companies had them available. I’m sorry you were not satisfied about the situation, it was my fault.