Yeah, and then they can end up paying $500 a year for it instead of $75 because it gets wrapped up in another government approved bidding contract.
Here’s a much simpler solution… When you have a $75 bill for something as critical as fire fighting PAY THE FUCKING THING.
The more I read this thread the less pity I have because I see there really are people in this world who think the need for personal responsibility can be legislated away with more government.
if it’s made clear to you that your taxes don’t cover fire coverage as a public service and you have to pay a seperate fee…then consider yourself warned. Hell it could be as simple as stating: “your tax dollar doesn’t cover fire as a public service and your taxes are lower due to this, however you can pay a $75 fee if you opt to have this coverage” Big fucking deal, send in an extra $75 when you pay your taxes. If you don’t, then don’t expect the coverage.
It is being state clear as day/night that this is not a public service and was a $75. If the village/hamlet/city/town has its own fire company and taxes are being paid to support this…then yes you would/should be covered and this wouldn’t be an issue.
---------- Post added at 02:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 PM ----------
i stated in my very first post that with nobody having their life at risk…i do believe there is a moral obligation to save a life, but that may or may not involve turning a hose on.
I completely disagree
Firefighting is one of the FIRST government services aimed at safety to ever start. To me, it’s a basic service that everyone should be entitled to, even if that means raising taxes by $100/year.
To me, this actually isn’t about PERSONAL responsibility, it’s quite the opposite. I value personal responsibility HIGHLY. I usually don’t have ANY pity on people that don’t pay their bills. I just believe that, along with law enforcement, this should be a service that NO person has to pay for, and that it be tax supported.
I will admit that they SHOULD have paid the bill, but I believe more strongly that this shouldn’t be the type of thing that you get billed for yearly. I feel for them, because the article states that they have paid it in the past and that this was an accidental case of forgetting to send in a payment.
Yeah, if there is a person in there it’s a whole different story, but in that case I really doubt the firemen would have acted the same.
I don’t think anybody’s saying you can legislate away the need for personal responsibility, but that you can push people away from the most blatant irresponsible decisions. Say you have a thousand foot deep hole in the ground on public property. Do you rely on personal responsibility to keep people from falling in? Or does the government legislate away the need for it by putting a damn fence around it?
^ They put a fence around it, then someone climbs over the fence, falls in, then sues because the fence wasn’t high enough or the warning signs weren’t big enough.
i like you.
Or they don’t build the fence, and stand around up on top and watch someone fall down there, then refuse to help them out because they forgot to prepay for it.
what i don’t understand is you are fighting the same thing from two different stances. The “FEE” is the same thing as a “TAX” except you are given a clear option with the fee. For whatever reason, the taxes there are not $75 higher for every household, maybe this was a political move for some politician to say they never raised their taxes, instead they gave you a fee option. But your saying they should pay more for it and not be an option. mean while the person who “forgot” to pay was given an option and forgot to pay.
what it really comes down to here…is it was an OPTION that was NOT opted for. If its a tax, you are just allowing the government to take away the choice. I understand your point though, i just disagree with it. IF it was a tax…then there is no debate here.
Maybe I’m just jaded because I’ve watch NY screw up every single thing the government gets involved with, but if my choice is paying for it myself or having it wrapped up in a mystery bundle labeled “taxes” I’ll take paying for it myself every time. I have no faith that the government will do anything to get a decent rate once a service becomes mandatory.
Government is the reason the guy cutting grass at the park gets full benefits and $20/hr. Without it being a “paid by the government and just wrapped up in your taxes” service that mowing would be bid out to a company willing to do it for 1/4th the price.
well yeah, but first you need to collect their information to see if they are a payer or not. hopefully they left their wallet and info at the top.
Don’t get me wrong here, i’m a fan of moral obligation. If somebody is hurt, you help them. However, the fees and taxes are in place to provide the capital to function as a company, not to profit. If nobody pays you are asking all of the firefighters to assume the risk and put their own life at risk to save possesions. I don’t see the trade off there if the FD doesn’t have the financial support to make sure they have all the safeguards necessary to fight a fire safely.
endangering the lives of others to save posessions is not the same as saving somebody elses life. And in THIS SPECIFIC instance the homeowner never mentioned any human’s life at risk, instead he was trying to negotiate a PayPal option.
Yeah, exactly
I don’t expect them to fight fires for free, but I do expect this to be a tax-paid service the same way law enforcement is a tax-paid service.
I do think though, that in the case of the “optional fire fighting” plan, they should have put the fire out, then sent a fine to the homeowner.
They can enforce the fine the same way they enforce all other legal fines, the judicial system.
If they updated the bill for the $75 to clearly state if they come to your house and put out a fire when you haven’t paid the cost for the service will be $5000 then I’m fine with that too. But those are things that have to be put in place, and in writing, before the fire not during or after.
I do agree with you there
It’s their own fault the didn’t pay it, that’s just plain ignorance.
BUT…
Fire fighting, along the same lines as law enforcement, should be a “free” public service in the first place anyway. Tax me for it, I’ll gladly pay the nominal charge for a service I find to be 100% necessary.
I think that you are misunderstanding what some of us are saying. I completely agree with paying your bills for services such as this, that is why I pay taxes on my home and garage I do not think that we need more government intervention for anything. What I am disappointed about is what the moral responsibility that I believe that firemen/police have and the way in which it was disregarded here over what amounts to just making an example of someone.
---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------
So now that it is out there that the homeowner did not pay for the fire protection, will his homeowner’s insurance even cover his losses?
This is bullshit. If your neighbor was being mugged and you had a gun and a phone, you’d help. You wouldn’t just refuse to help because he didn’t bring anything to the block party. And I can’t imagine how anyone can consider themselves human after voluntarily watching three dogs burn to death.
whether this service is private or public, all health care and public service employess take an aoth to performt heir job (aka save peoples lives) or risk being jailed or fined. EMT’s that work for private companies do it and so do firemen. What they did was illegal and wrong no matter what the situation was.
One problem, there were no lives at risk. I really doubt their oath involves protecting property.
Lets say that a fireman died while fighting this blaze. He was working outside the boundary set forth by the municipality responsible. Since he was working where he was not supposed to does the gov’t still provide for his funeral and his pension for his wife or is he considered terminated from employment for not following the guidelines set forth. The people were clearly negligent of duty in this case and not the firefighters. They failed to pay their obligations and when it bit them in the ass they scrambled to find a resolution. Hopefully the example that they made of these people gets more news time and wakes up some of the other freeloaders. Now to clarify I am not calling these people freeloaders, maybe they did honestly forget, but oh well they forgot to pay, the fire dept. forgot to put the fire out.
This can be boiled down one of the major problems plaguing the United States today, Entitlement. More and more people want all of the handouts and services and do not want to pay a dime. Look at the NYS Medicare and Benefits programs. But I will just leave it at that as to not derail the thread.