He could only possibly take it there, if what comes out of this plan is so successful that most Americans would want it. Even if he were to be reelected we wouldn’t have the numbers yet to find out how successful this plan will be before he is gone.
Yes. I wouldn’t consider the healthcare industry a “free market” when they spend so much on lobbying. Seems like government and healthcare are already pretty intertwined.
LOL those dudes are deff all virgins.
Go to your local VA and see how Gov’t run health care operates. Drive through the parking lot at Roswell and count the # of Canadian license plates. Want to lower costs? How about we start with TORT reform? I haven’t heard one Dem mention that as part of their plan, why would they? They are all attorneys. I have heard several Repub senators say that there would be a good place to start.
The fact that they want to rush this through before anyone knows WTF is in it (like they did with the stimulus) scares the shit out of me. Lets slow down and get it right and make change for the sake of improving on what we have rather than implement change for the sake of change.
I’ll be the first one to get in line and stand up behind the Gov’t plan as soon as Congress abolishes their plan and gets on the same one they want to push on the public.
TORT reform is only a drop in the bucket, yes I agree with it, but it doesn’t come close to solving the problem.
I honestly don’t think that this was as rushed through as everyone wants to believe. Democrats have been wanting healthcare reform for 30 years. Why does everyone think this was just thought up in the last couple of weeks?
I mean its not the Patriot Act.
As someone who uses VA medical it is one of my reasons for not wanting govt ran health care. The VA is a joke.
+1 On TORT reform and my family is a bunch of lawyers lol.
I watched my grandfather die last year in the VA here in Buffalo. The last few days he was on a pain-killer drip (morphine?) and it was supposed to be administered every few hours. They did everything they could to try to get us to agree NOT to give it to him. And they could have just left the thing on ‘auto’ but instead they would do it manually and never did it on time. Only after my grandmother or mother would go complain at the nurse room, and after my grandfather was visibly in pain would they do it. My grandmother used to be a nurse and was upset because she knew they could do more to make him comfortable.
My grandmother (different side of the family from my grandfather who died) recently died a few months ago. She was starting to slip away at the hospital over about the same time frame as my grandfather, except she was in the private heath system. So when she got to the point where we all knew she wasn’t going to come back, her doctors moved her to hospice where they made EVERY effort to comfort her regardless of cost or convenience.
My grandfather died in pain, in a small gray room at the VA because that’s the most he could get from his government plan. My grandmother died in a large, sunny, window filled room surrounded by gardens.
Obviously my experiences might not be the same as others, but the contrast between them stands out.
The VA is the redheaded stepchild of the DoD. Whatever money is left over in the defense budget, they get, they’re constantly underfunded.
exactly…the program is underfunded
the healthy new york program isn’t a GREAT program either. My GF was on it, the coverage was not good at all.
Man I have seen some horror stories at the VA. I walked around on a multi-fractured ankle after falling off a truck in Iraq for three months before they took x-rays. I had to be seen six times for my back before I got an MRI to reveal all sorts of issues. The system is pathetic. Working federally almost five years really makes me scared of any federally ran system.
I wouldn’t worry though. Obama says everything will be fine and I trust him… :roll:
A lot of things can be learned on what not to do with the VA system. But remember that the public option is not replacing hospitals or doctors. The program is a publicly funded insurance.
It is very different from the VA system. It is more like medicare which is a pretty good system.
True, but part of the argument is that no private insurance company will be able to compete with a national, publicly funded insurance program in the long run. And that eventually the private system will die out leaving only the public option - a single-payer system like the VA system for vets.
Other than some verbal promises from Obama, there really isn’t anything out there to stop people from thinking along these lines. And when people like Barney Frank say stuff like this: (link) it makes people wonder.
I’m just not convinced we can have both public and private systems running together. And if it eventually did result in a single payer system, I’m not convinced that it could do as good or a better job that what private insurance does now. Sure the cost might be less, but I’d rather continue to pay more than risk changing the whole system based on political promises that historically never seem to pan out.
In order for the private system would die out leaving only the public option, everyone would have to be satisfied with the quality and choose it. By manner of competition, if the public option is inefficient and lacks quality, people will choose to keep their private insurance.
But people wouldn’t choose it because it offers better care, but only because it’s cheaper. And if it costs less for businesses to have their employees on the public option, they’re going to make that choice for them.
Most people think with their wallets, and the shift to single payer will be driven by the costs not the level of care.
But then they will have an experience with it, and if they do not pay for the level of care they expect, they will switch back. Cost will only drive someone to one insurance or another until they need to use it. You only have to keep it for a year. If the coverage really is inadequate, you can use the extra money saved to buy supplemental private insurance, france style.
But people can’t switch back if they can’t afford it. If they’re struggling to pay for insurance now, then move to the public option to save money, odds are they’re not going back regardless of the level of care. Most people wouldn’t experience the level of care (visit the doctor, emergency room, etc.) frequently enough to compare systems anyway.
And if the company you work for decides to no longer offer a health plan though a private insurance company because it’s cheaper to just have everyone on the public option, then what? Pay for a private plan out-of-pocket for twice as much? Sure, the “choice” is there initially but when you factor in how much it costs there is only one option for most people.
And if we go back to Barney Franks comments, it’s obvious he only wants a single payer system. I’m sure there are others out there that would do what they can give the public option an advantage so that it eventually chokes out the private insurance companies.
If people are struggling to afford insurance now, and we don’t reform it, they will have no insurance at all in the future. The status quo is only going one way: higher prices and less care.
The bill includes heavy penalties for employers who no longer offer insurance. If they’re only going to spend x amount, they’re either going to do it on a private policy, or the public option, whatever offers the most bang for your buck.
Barney Frank is one of the more liberal members. But we will never get anti-competitive health care…as long as the field is open to competition, if there is a void, some public or private institution will fill it.
As was stated, the biggest obstacles for this bill are not what it actually proposes, but what people think it will be a gateway to. On its own, it holds up. I imagine it’s something along the lines of marijuana reform.
Well Onyx that is the problem, if people can’t afford the private insurance then something needs to be done.
It seem like everyone who is against the public option forgets, or have never dealt with the problems of insurance companies. Yeah the cost are rising at double digit rates nearly every year, but on top of that they are not the best running companies out there as far as consumer protection.
Insurance companies are efficient at taking your money, not giving you benefits.