Lease your dd and you don’t have to worry about that nonsense.
Eh I did alright there all things considered. Especially because there is NO Internet department. occasionally the manager would maybe foreword a lead to us and demand we not attempt to negotiate via email, he would say if they ask about price tell them the the sticker an we can negotiate in the store. That what we were ordered an if wr went to a manager to try to get a lower price they would refuse.
I’m guessing most of the reason their sales are so low is because they almost 100% rely on foot traffic. No Internet department, employees dont even have computers at their desks, no way of forewarding or finding leads. Just trying to get the few people who call to come into the store, and hope people come onto the lot. Oh and lack of inventory. That’s probably why top sales men when I was there sold about 11-13 cars a month. No wonders I left
There. I’d rather work my shitty factory job I have now than sit at that shit hole 50 hours a week for a draw paycheck.
My pops wants to buy a GMC In Sept…
He was annoyed that I wanted to shop around as the GM employee discount is useless now.
talk to david basil on here. He will take care of you :tup:
HYUNDAI
10yr/100k = power train
5yr/60k = bumper2bumper
7yr/unlimited mileage = anti perforation
5yr/unlimited mileage = 24hr roadside assistance
Oh and Beck we are no longer paid the $200 flats, now all commission. As i posted before even if it is the BEST DEAL upfront some customers still want a “discount” so we got away from the set price/flat commission. And i couldn’t be happier.
BUMP. I found some of my old notes and wrote a bit here tonight in the first post. I’ll probably add more later when I’m not as tired.
For the lazy, here is what I added to the first post:
UPDATE: took me a while but I found some of my old info. While this might not be typical, these are some of the items taught in the training sessions I attended.
On the first day our teacher who was a self described “master salesmen” asked everyone in the class “who here went to college?” I was the only one who raised my hand. “You’re the only one? Well, you probably think you’re better than everyone else here!” I just smirked… I’m not quite sure of the point he was trying to make by asking his college question, but felt it had more to do with him trying to foresee who in the class might give him issues. It was after this and a few other questionable comments to the class that solidified my intent to stick it out for the duration. This could be interesting. It was 3 days long and I might learn something…
The potential salesmen & women in this class were told that your personal image is key. Dressing conservative with a simple tie and shirt portrayed an image that made you look knowledgeable but not so smart that you were better than the customer. Any “flashy” clothing wasn’t allowed. Facial hair was strictly prohibited. One middle-aged black gentlemen had a well groomed mustache. The teacher told him in front of our class of 20 people (and 30 more via teleconference) that he needed to shave it off. No facial hair allowed of any sort. The guy politely responded by saying he started growing it when his son was born and that it had significance to his family. But the teacher derided him in front of everyone by saying if he wanted a job at the end of this training he’d shave it off for tomorrow. He never came back the next day.
The teacher told us that as soon as a customer was on the lot that we needed jump into action! He described his typical sales room where salesmen should be waiting at the windows or near the glass doors, watching and looking for anyone who might pull in. This was a first come, first served battle where the salesmen who approached the customer was the victor and the other salesmen starved… He told us that no customers should be on the lot for more than a few minutes before a salesman had “hooked” them.
After “hooking” them, a salesmen should immediately show them the highest end model on the lot. You’re not supposed to ask what a customer is looking for; you’re supposed to determine that through the course of a few cars while looking for buying signs. The goal is to draw out these buying signs then get you on a test drive. More on that in a minute. His logic behind starting out at the highest end car was that it’s easier to sell down than to sell up. “Features” that carried over to the lower end models had more “prestige” coming from the higher end cars. He told us to focus on these apparent “features” and learn them to use over and over again. I’m putting “features” in quotes because you might be thinking I’m talking about a special stereo or adaptive headlights… but no, I’m talking about common things that every single car has in common across all makes & models. For example, “Did you know Mr. Jones that this car is built so well that you could pick it up into the air by only it’s doors! That’s a solid vehicle right there!” - we were told that you could use this statement for ANY vehicle currently made because it’s some design mandate (either by the government or manufactures, I can’t remember which) and it’s a claim that the customer could never check for themselves. This line could then be repeated for any customer and with any vehicle. It was feeding them a line of crap that while might be true, was still a line of crap. And if Mr. Jones had the perception that the $20k car had the same “super strong doors” as the $30k car, he might feel better about buying the $20k car.
I’ll give more examples of this as I remember them but I’m sure you can think of some of your own.
A salesmen was also ALWAYS supposed to tell the customer that there was a sale going on… regardless if there was an advertized promotion. “As long as there are cars on the lot there is a sale going on!” he told us. And the customers would have no clue, except they would have the perception of urgency… that they needed to buy right now before the sale ended.
The teacher advised us to look for buying signs. What were buying signs? Anything and everything. If you said you liked a car = buying sign. If you criticized a car, BAM! Another buying sign, but you needed to put in a little more work to convince them. The ultimate goal as a salesmen was to GET THEM ON A TEST DRIVE. This was hammered home. Our “master salesmen” told us that once you got someone into car and on a test drive that it was 90% of the transaction. We were told to pick a landmark that we’d pass on the ride back to the dealership where once at that spot we’d hit them with the slick line of “So Mr. Jones, what can I do to get you to leave our dealership with this car today?”
At this point there was a literal flow chart of responses and counter points for any excuse the customer might come up with. “Well Mr. Jones, why don’t we go pick up your wife right now!” - anything to not let the customer out of your sight and our of your control. If a salesmen let a potential customer leave the dealership with an excuse like “I need to sleep on it” he / she was considered an abysmal failure. The teacher gave us examples of him literally driving with a customer back to their house, staying after hours, etc. just to get the sale done.
The next step was to get them back into the showroom and work the deal. At this point we were told to offer the customer a drink, snack, coffee… ANYTHING. The idea is that you buy them a $1 Coke and subconsciously they’ll feel obligated to buy a car from you. And they’ll need something to keep them occupied while you intentionally leave them alone for an extended period of time. By drawing things out time-wise the customer might be in more of a hurry to agree to something that might be to the dealerships advantage. If everything is going well and basic terms are agreed to, the sales manager would then come out and toss a line like “Man, you sure got a good deal here Mr. Jones! I wasn’t sure we could do ______ at first but we made it happen!” - This is more crap and made up to make you feel better about the decision you’re about to make. If things are not going so good a salesmen was supposed to hand over the sale to the sales manager directly.
When it came time for the finance aspect of the deal there were more interesting things the dealership could do… I’ll cover some of them here. The first thing some dealerships like to do is lie about the interest rate they’ve secured for you. The finance manager might say “Great news! We got you a 7.5% rate!” when in fact they got you a 6.5% rate, but the lender is jacking it up 1% and giving the difference to the dealership. Often times this extra % is cut directly to the dealership in one check, it is NOT paid out over time. Paint sealant / protection, VIN etching, “gold” plating on logos and badges only cost the dealership pennies compared to what they’ll charge you… don’t add them to your loan. And aftermarket warranties, while they can come in handy, are major money makers for dealerships. A dealerships cost on a warranty might only be $600 but they’ll charge you 2x or 3x that amount. If you do purchase an aftermarket warranty It’s important to call the company and make sure they actually have you on file and covered…
(I’m getting tired as I write this… I’ll elaborate more when I can after I sleep, lol)
edit
No decent sales person would start a customer out on the highest model available. It’s called a “needs assessment” and it helps to speed the process up. If someone is looking for fuel economy and seating space, you’re not going to show them a Tundra. This “trainer” is probably not a trainer anymore.
---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------
So many misconceptions about the car business. 2 or 3 times the cost of the product to the dealer?! 1% mark-up on rates?! When your transmission takes a shit out of warranty and the dealer decides to help you out, it’s the profit that’s going to allow them to do so.
I don’t hear anyone bitching that the $300 shoes I bought, only cost Allen Edmunds $45 to make.
^you know how I know you’re gay?
Right, this whole things seems severely outdated to me. I might have expected this treatment 15-20 years ago, but I have bought, and been with people who have bought cars recently, and this is not the approach used.
In some cases starting off with your highest trim/best/etc is a good tactic, but not something as spread as a HD truck to an economy car. There is no flowchart for sales (esp. vehicle sales); every sale is situational and is about adapting to your customer. There is no right answer, just a bunch of wrong answers.
I could be wrong though, i only make a fraction of a Beck a year :gotme:
Very good read.
Reading this thread enlightened me…… there are some really fucking dumb people in the world who shouldn’t be allowed to touch money!
This is what works for me and I can’t stress this enough but these are my opinions. I’m mostly bored at work. :tup: to you who actually read through the whole thing.
I wanted to add my 2 cents and share my experience seeing I’m in the midst of buying yet another vehicle out of town. I can’t stand the local dealerships here in Buffalo for a few reasons; mostly because they don’t have what I’m looking for and also price along with trade-in values suck.
My way of doing things and what seems to work for me.
1.) I don’t give a fuck about payments, I only care about bottom line pricing…why?
A…. I’m not poor and B…. I don’t EVER live above my means so I know what I can afford. I already have ran my own numbers this way i know my bottom line.
This is one of the first things I do when I walk into a dealership. I’ve actually been having better luck through email. There’s no point in wasting my time by walking into a dealership sitting down and going back and forth with the sales manager and walking out the door wasting an hour of my time while insulting me by knocking $1000 off MSRP (see Steve Baldo Ford if you like that kind of shit)
2.) I don’t give a shit about APR unless you’re offering under 4.5% financing from the dealership. I take my business to local credit unions that offer anywhere from 2-3.75% with A+ credit. If you don’t have at least C credit you’re doing something wrong and probably shouldn’t concern yourself with a brand new vehicle unless it’s a necessity.
3.) Do some fucking research. There are hundreds of thousands and then some dealerships in the US. Don’t limit yourself to just the locality of one area, I’ve personally traveled as far as VA to buy a vehicle. It has its advantages and disadvantages as it’s a high risk sometimes high reward. When I say dealership I mean mainstream not mom and pops eastside we approve everyone scum bag dealer.
Example:
For instance I bought a used vehicle for a great price out of state. I researched the options the vehicle had for that year as some dealership are idiots when it comes to listing options for used vehicles. I was able to knock off $500 off the asking price and I tried for a week or two to get them even lower; they weren’t going to budge. They knew I was trading something in so I used that as my bargaining chip. I wanted this vehicle and knew that this was priced $4-5k lower than the same make and similar year with in a 500 mile radius. I got $1500 more for my trade-in value according to kbb (which is intended as a starting point for negotiations) so I was happy. I packed a lunch and grab the wife and we were off for a road trip. Granted when I got there the vehicle had a scuff on the front bumper that was fixable and wasn’t noted in the online pictures. The sales guy was such a D-bag, one of those guys who lies about his personal life to get attention. Anyways long story short I got him to knock off another $160 off the price of the vehicle after his senseless babbling. The only thing that pissed me off was the fact that he told me the seats were leather when in fact they were leatherette. No biggie.
4.) One thing I haven’t fully got down is trade-in values; this is a game in itself. How much you value your vehicle and how much someone else does usually doesn’t go hand in hand; prepare to be dazzled and outraged all in the same sense. So far this is how I handle trade-in values. When I originally buy a new or used vehicle I make sure I don’t pay MSRP or even close, invoice or under for me if possible, this way if I ever trade the car in I won’t completely lose my ass off on it. I also make double/ triple payments on the principle a few times a year to reduce the interest I’m paying overall. Buying used is a grey area as one person noted that kbb doesn’t mean shit. Try looking at the same make and similar years to get an average price for said vehicle.
One would think all this is simple for a consumer to understand, if that’s the case then we wouldn’t have threads like this. There are some people out there who fuck shit up for the rest of the educated consumer based individuals. My wife, her mom and dad all went to paddock and all bought vehicles at the same time, the three of them walked out paying MSRP for three vehicles. Had we been dating/ married at the time this shit wouldn’t have happened.
I would like to follow up with this thread if anyone is interested.
Some of these tactics are still used for sure. I’ve been in shitty situations at dealerships where I REALLY wanted the vehicle they were selling, but they treated me like an asshole so I left.
I’ve learned where the good dealers are and bad dealers are.
No one is talking about you or how you do business personally in case there was confusion.
The “trainer” or “master salesmen” as he called himself was actually the owner of the company. His company had training locations in several states and as I mentioned our class was about 50 people. He trained salesmen in multiple states then farmed them out to dealerships. He was a staffing agency for car salesmen so the dealerships didn’t have to hire and train salesmen themselves. I’m sure he’s still around and making 2x to 3x more Beck’s than you 
Obviously if someone was looking at a car he didn’t tell us to show them an SUV. But rather if they were looking at a mid-sized car to show them a full-sized. It’s not something that I’d do, I’m just telling you what 49 other people and I were told. (Not to mention countless others in different training sessions.)
My 2x to 3x figure for aftermarket warranties is based on my personal observation, not hearsay. See my example earlier in this thread about a $5,000 warranty. Customers have no idea what these things are really worth and when a dealership rolls it into their loan they don’t think anymore about it.
I’ll also point out again that I’m talking about aftermarket warranties so your transmission example doesn’t hold up. The dealership doesn’t pay to replace your transmission anymore than a body shop pays to repair crash damage; they’re paid by the insurance company.
Let me break it down (not for you Beck but for others reading this):
- Acme company sells it’s warranty to dealerships for $600.
- Bob’s used cars is allowed to mark up that price with almost no restrictions and for any reason (depending on the company) so they sell a policy to Mr. Jones for $1,200.
- Acme cuts Bob’s dealership a check for the $600 difference.
- When a claim is filed, the work is paid for by Acme not Bob’s dealership. And Mr. Jones likely has to come up with a deductible of $50 (or some other amount.)
These warranties are great, easy profit for dealerships. It’s all in the markup.
Edit: I just re-read your post and you said dealerships “help you out” when you’re OUT of warranty to replace a transmission… Where is this dealership so we can all go there :tup:
I’ve never known a dealership to do work free to the customer after a warranty expired, unless it was an issue that existed prior to the warranty running out (and in that case should still be covered regardless.)
My 1% markup on rates point is again based on first hand experience. You might not do this at your job, but it’s real. I beleive NYS only allows a maximum of 3% or 4% markup by law, but I’m certainly rusty on this. I’ve actually followed entire deals through to the end and have actually picked up checks direcrly cut to the dealer by the lender for this markup amount.
In fact, the reason I started this thread to begin with was because EVOLUTION VIII MR was in a situation like this. A dealership was marking up his loan by at least 4% and wouldn’t allow him to finance through WV credit (or whatever it’s called) because WV credit wouldn’t allow them to take any points.
The easiest way to avoid a dealership trying to do this is to arrange financing ahead of time with your own bank, a known bank or to go through the manufacturer’s finance company (like VW) because they can often give you a great rate.
So for example, say I’m shopping for a new Saab 9-5 (so no one thinks I’m singling anyone out) and I’m trading in a Cobalt:
- I want at least $5k for my Cobalt and the Saab costs $25k.
- The dealership only wants to give me $4k on my Cobalt and won’t budge on the $25k Saab.
- After telling the salesmen that I’m outa here, he then says “let me talk to my manager and see if we can work something out!”
- The salesmen comes back and tells me they’ll give me the $5k for my cobalt AND take $500 off the Saab.
- Great deal right? We’ll see…
- The salesman then convinces me that I need a warranty. And using my $600 example above, the dealership makes back the $500 they took off the Saab plus pockets an extra $100.
- Then the finance manager tells me that this deal a only good if I finance through HSBC bank… I certainly don’t want to loose the sweet deal they’re giving me on my trade or the Saab, so I say ok.
- HSBC “buys” my loan at 3%… But I don’t know that. The finance manager comes back with the “great news” that he’s secured me a 7% rate! I think that might be a little high, but again I don’t want to loose my sweet deal so I accept.
- And just like that the dealer has worked a better deal for them than I had at the start. Now say I add on something like paint protection that they charge me $200 for when it only costs them $25… You see where this is going.
The idea behind this thread was to point out things like this, not to be anti-dealership. There are great dealerships out there, but there are also ones that like to play games. The best thing you can do is arm yourself with information.
I got a 10 year 100k miles warranty on my Pilot for around a grand. 0 deductible. Hopefully I didn’t get scammed, but if it pays for even only a few repairs, then it will at least pay for itself.
Maximum rate mark-up in NYS is based on length of loan. Also, banks regulate it. Some banks allow 3 points, some allow 2. It just depends.
There is so much I could add, but I’m not in the mood.
Warranties help people and dealers. The more warranties the dealer sells, the less customer service issues they have down the line. This too is regulated by banks.
Plenty of dealers are willing to help a customer out after their warranty expires. Not 100,000 miles past due, but 10,000? Sure. Not to mention, all those “free” oil changes, inspections and tire rotations? Yeah.
Training people and then farming them out to dealers, sounds like the absolutely worst idea ever. Makes zero sense. Certain people work with certain stores. Ugh, I can’t believe this is a real thing.
Dealers do pay for it out of their own pockets. When the warranty only pays $35/day for a rental car, a good dealer will pick up the other $15. Warranties pay less than retail on parts and shop time than customer pay work. If a dealer self-insures their warranties, a portion of the profit will go into a pot and be used to pay out claims over XX number of years. (There’s a lot more to it than just “profit” amd making an insurance claim.)
Profit isn’t a dirty word. OMG the dealer made $100, on a $25,000 car?!!? Holy shit.
The best deal is when a customer is happy and the dealer makes a little money. It’s win, win. People get so bent out of shape when buying a car. If you buy a $1,000 warranty and in 10 years don’t use it, is it really going to bother you for the rest of your life that the dealer made $200?
---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------
Not to mention. If a dealer buys the rate @ 1% and marks it up 2%, so you get it for 3%. Would it bother you, if the only rate you could obtain outside the dealer is 3.5%?
If a dealer blatantly lies to my face about loan % rate then I would rather get my own financing even if % was higher. That’s Niagara Falls type scum.
Meh. I drive shit till I find one I want.
Do financing via my credit union (usually 1-2%)
When I read this mess I just remember how dumb people are.
Horse shit.
I went to the dealer I bought my gay toyota from because the horn stopped working. I was, no shit, at 36,8XX miles and they told me that since I was out of warranty they would have to charge me to even look at it. I asked if they were sure they couldnt help me out, they said no, I said eat shit. The best part is we were there buying a car for my g/f. So we left, went to northtown and bought it there. They offered us a better price too. But mostly it was out of spite. And yes, I realize that I was out of warranty, so they technically did nothig wrong. But still annoyed me considering a replacement horn probably costs them very little
---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 PM ----------
Thats all this boils down to. If you fall for any of the “crooked” tactics listed before, its your fault for being stupid and gullible. Or a woman…
Right, because I don’t know this business better than anyone on this board. We split repair bills all the time with our best customers.
---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 AM ----------
It’s not a blatant lie. Bank sells rate. Dealer buys rate. Dealer sells you rate. That’s like being pissed off that Apple made $200 when they sold you an iphone.