Bump. Saving $200 at the time of sale, but actually signing an arbitration clause:
Some clients were told that they were getting a really good deal because they were getting the car “for less than [the dealers] pay for it!”, as if the dealer was losing money on the deal.
That $200 is used as the bait to get the buyer’s signature, which costs the buyer their right to sue.
Off topic but dealer related…
I found it interesting how dealers operate.
I’ll chime in on my experience with Basil.
Not going to give you a rundown of what I own or the person I am, just how I was treated.
Went to dealer to look at $40k truck, drove it, loved it. told them what I was thinking on the truck, they toss out trade offer that doesn’t reflect what the website states they would offer ( did call them out on that) but after some aggressive talk and key hostage negotiations I got my key back and a very unpleasant interaction with sales manager and a two finger peace sign like we were in the block and buddies. I wrote this visit off and moved on, but basil customer service followed up, so I told her what happened. Day later I get call from location boss or something like that. He tells me that he is extremely sorry for what happened and wanted to make things right. After ignoring my emails and bouncing my calls around, short of it, never made it right and they have lost vehicle purchases and service from my family. I have never been so disrespected. I won’t do business with them ever.
Which Basil location?
BUMP.
Another dealership caught doing this, nearby in Erie PA:
Extended warranty companies were also defrauded as part of the scheme. Gabler specifically was noted in the DOJ’s announcement as selling extended warranties and other services to customers but never submitting the paperwork and payment to the companies that offered those warranties. Customers were unaware they did not have the coverage they purchased.
What’s incredible to me is that somehow they can still get away with it… for a time.
Also…
Gabler reportedly faces a punishment of up to 510 years in prison and a $17-million fine if convicted for all counts. His finance manager, Bednarski, faces up to 330 years and an $11 million fine for his role.
It’s pretty telling of your society’s values when child molesters and murders don’t face anywhere near that kind of jail time.
Flee the country if possible.
They should still be young by the time they get out. Long life to live after.
dealerships are instead telling buyers to give their old cars back to their lenders—and selling them new ones—in a practice known as “kicking the trade.”
If you have basic knowledge of the credit system this should raise a red flag, but most don’t.
I’ve only somewhat experienced this when my stepdad died. A car was in his name and my mom was getting letters because he wasn’t making payments on it. She basically told them to come get it, and they did.
But if you’re leaving a dealership with your old car, your new car, AND loans on each one (neither of which you can afford) you might have been lied to…
Paywall keeping me from reading past the first paragraph.
Let’s try this:
Joyce Parks with the used Nissan Murano her family bought her after a financing disaster with two previous cars. JEREMY M. LANGE FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
By
AnnaMaria Andriotis and
Ben Eisen
Feb. 15, 2020 5:30 am ET
Joyce Parks was struggling to afford her Kia Soul when, she says, the dealership where she had bought it pitched her an unconventional idea: Stop making the payments.
Ms. Parks, 63, says employees told her that she couldn’t trade in the Soul, but that she could buy another car. To get rid of the Soul, the dealership told her, she should have the lender repossess it, Ms. Parks said.
The trade-in, where a buyer hands a car back to a dealership and uses it as credit toward another one, is often a crucial step in car buying. But some dealerships are instead telling buyers to give their old cars back to their lenders—and selling them new ones—in a practice known as “kicking the trade.”
It is difficult to estimate how often this happens. Auto-sales veterans say the practice is an open secret in some showrooms. Broadly, vehicles are getting more expensive and Americans are struggling to afford them. Dealerships now make more money arranging financing than selling vehicles. If a car loan goes bad, it typically isn’t the dealership on the hook—it is the borrower or lender.
A consumer already has a car loan when she visits a dealership.
Scenario 1
Scenario 2
I would like a cheaper loan.
I would like to trade in my car.
Can’t do that. I will sell you another car instead.
After I sell you this new car, call the lender that you’re paying for your existing car and tell them to take it back.
Loan
approval
Loan
application
Dealership gets a new lender to approve a loan for the new car. That lender doesn’t know the borrower is about to stop paying their other car loan.
Original lender
The consumer leaves the dealership with two cars, each with a loan.
Old car is
repossessed
At home, the consumer calls the lender on her original car and tells the lender to take it away.
Source: WSJ interviews and review of documents
The National Automobile Dealers Association said there is no evidence to suggest “kicking the trade” is prevalent. Dealerships “could not sustain carefully cultivated relationships” with lenders “if they were to engage in the type of behavior alleged,” a spokesman said.
Consumer lawyers say they have seen more such cases. Five years ago, “it happened two or three times per year,” said Daniel Blinn, a Connecticut-based attorney who has sued dealerships and auto lenders. “Now, we hear it at least once per month.”
Credit-reporting firm TransUnion calculates that nearly 24 million U.S. vehicle loans were originated in 2018. About 300,000 of those vehicles were repossessed within 12 months, up 17% from 2014. Such a quick souring of the loan can be a signal of some sort of auto fraud.
Roughly a fifth of people who have had a car repossessed over the last several years take out another auto loan within a year of the repossession, TransUnion says.
Dealerships typically don’t make loans. When consumers need financing, a dealership electronically sends their loan applications to banks, credit unions and other lenders. They, in turn, decide whether to fund the loan.
Value of loans impacted by auto fraud or misrepresentationSource: PointPredictiveNote: Annual estimates
.billion2010’11’12’13’14’15’16’17’18’190246$8
Problems often begin with consumers who buy cars they can’t afford or sign loans they don’t understand. But dealerships can compound the trouble. Some dealerships are inflating borrowers’ incomes on loan applications so they can sell them bigger or more expensive cars, according to lawsuits and interviews.
When dealerships kick the trade, they typically get a lender to approve a loan for the buyer’s new vehicle. Next, the buyer generally goes home with two vehicles and two loans. It is only then the buyer asks the original lender to repossess the original car.
Connex Credit Union sued Connecticut dealership Barberino Nissan in 2016, alleging the dealership “repeatedly told customers to just deliver the keys to Connex.” Barberino denied the accusations but agreed to a settlement roughly a year ago, according to the dealership’s lawyer.
Lenders generally say they will cut ties with dealerships that do this. Often, though, the lenders aren’t aware it is happening.
Ms. Parks, a former dietary aide in Gastonia, N.C., said she told dealership employees she couldn’t afford the used Nissan Rogue they wanted her to buy. She said she signed a bank loan for it because she felt out of options.
Ms. Parks then told Kia Motors Finance, the lender on her Soul, she wanted to return it. The dealership told her not to mention she had just bought another car, she said.
After a few months, Ms. Parks couldn’t make the payments on the Rogue either. It was repossessed too.
Ms. Parks now drives a used Nissan Murano her family bought her. Her credit score has plunged. She owes at least $15,000 on the Soul and Rogue, according to her credit report.
She is suing the dealership, Kia of Gastonia. It shut down last year. A lawyer for the dealership didn’t return requests for comment.
PHOTO: JEREMY M. LANGE FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
When a lender takes back a vehicle, it typically tries to sell it, but that is often not enough to cover the outstanding loan. Sometimes borrowers don’t realize they are responsible for their remaining debt even after they get rid of the vehicle tied to it.
Perla Amante of Hawthorne, Calif., struggled to pay for her Kia Sorento after her husband died in 2018. At her dealership’s instructions, she said, she signed a loan for a Kia Forte and then called the Sorento’s lender, Ally Financial Inc., to say she no longer wanted it.
Ally told her she would be billed for the amount left over after Ally resold the car. Ms. Amante, 70, a retiree who worked in customer service, said the dealership hadn’t mentioned this risk. She contacted a lawyer, who got the dealership to take back the Forte.
When Whitney Davis’s Hyundai Sonata was having mechanical problems in 2016, she returned to the Connecticut dealership where she bought it used.
The dealership told her it would take the car and sell her another one, she said. But after she signed a loan for a used Nissan Altima, she was told she couldn’t trade in the Sonata, she said. When she explained she couldn’t afford two car loans, an employee told her to have the Sonata’s lender take it back, she said.
“He made it seem like it was something they deal with a lot,” said Ms. Davis, who is 29 and an office manager.
The Sonata’s lender took back the vehicle and soon informed Ms. Davis she still owed nearly $9,000. Her credit score plummeted.
An owner of the dealership, Car Nation in Middletown, Conn., pleaded guilty in federal court in December to a charge related to giving false information about loan applicants to auto lenders. Trent LaLima, an attorney for the owner, said his client didn’t cheat any car buyers and “would never have tolerated any such activity.”
The dealership has shut down. An attorney for the dealership disputed Ms. Davis’s account but wouldn’t give details.
Ms. Davis recently got a loan for a used Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Now that I’ve read it all the only thing I can say is, “My god people are stupid”.
Yes indeed. Do people think the money they owe just vanishes?
WTF do they think is gonna happen? You’d totally demolish your credit. Hope you don’t need anything for the next 5 years!
Looks like I’ll be going to the Mercedes dealer to buy an AMG now. This sounds brilliant. Buy the car, drive it for x amount and enjoy it… then contact the loan/lender and tell them to come get their car. Clear my hands completely of that car and owe nothing more on the vehicle.
How do people think this actually works. I feel I’ve known this from the moment I had a drivers license that if you get your car repossessed, you owe that money. Just like if your house gets foreclosed on… You owe that money.
It’s always someone else’s fault in today’s society.
