I have said several times (and not in an inflammatory way) that this election has exposed A LOT of mental illness in this country. People (supposed grown ups) have shown they have the emotional intelligence of second graders.
It truly concerns me.
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I know the word retard is frowned upon because people who are mentally retarded can’t help it BUT, I think there are a bunch of emotionally retarded people out there. I also believe they can change, they do have a choice. My 2 cents.
You quite clearly don’t seem to understand what was being litigated here, or why the TRO was upheld.
Let’s talk about the facts. This case wasn’t about the legality of the order, or if Trump broke the law. It was regarding the implementation of the order. The states sued citing undo hardship of it’s residents, business, etc and that was the basis for the majority of the amicus briefs filed in support of the States.
The only reason questions of jurisdiction were raised was that it was the of the DOJ’s defense.
Yep. The States don’t have nearly as strong of an argument in that case, and there’s no reason for a TRO.
That’s not to say they wouldn’t have tried, but the administration’s failure to properly vet their EO made this was kind of slam dunk for the plaintiffs.
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I assure you, there was plenty of complaining.
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What cases did the 9th circuit hear about that issue?
I’d expect the language to me more along the lines of the action the Obama administration took with regards to Iraqi immigrants and refugees, and what LZ said above; potentially stop to approving any new visas.
That’s the point, the original stay wasn’t put in place on the basis of law and technically not even in the judges authority to do so. Trump could have just ignored it.
The undue hardship to Washington is a bs argument because you cannot prove the loss supercedes national security.
Now the ruling yesterday clearly states that they believe that illegals are also under protection.
Let that sink in. That means the US Constitution applies to everyone in the world if they wish it. If that is not the definition of absurd and far left political bias, I don’t know what is.
Trump should take example from Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln.
Their argument wasn’t that the loss supersedes national security, it was that there was a loss. DOJ’s response was related to national security, and when pressed offered no evidence in support of their claim.
If the Trump ignores the Judicial branch(he won’t) he will likely be impeached in no time. I thought all you Trump conservative* guys were all about Law and Order, or is that just the ‘dog whistle’ application of it ?
There’s plenty of case law regarding the application of due process for anyone in the US regardless of citizenship or visa status. That sort of application of the 14th amendment has routinely been upheld.
It’s pretty laughable you keep arguing this like the 9th Circuit opinion means anything. They have an 80% reversal rate. I’m not even going to engage in the debate until the Supreme Court gets involved and issues a ruling.
I’ll agree to that. I expect the administration will end up amending it slightly and passing another EO, not because they don’t think they could win on appeal but because they’ll want to get something enacted far faster than an appeal would take. Not to mention the smart move would be to wait until Gorsuch was confirmed before filing the appeal. If you file it now a couple bad things happen.
It becomes MAJOR fodder for grandstanders like Schumer and Poca-Warren during the confirmation.
If Gorsuch is forced to provide too specific an answer he’ll have to recuse himself from the case once he’s on the court, likely leading to a 4-4 split which leaves the 9th decision as settled law.
Trumps strongest attribute is his ability to negotiate. He knows that if he shoots for the moon, he’ll have a decent shot at getting what he really wants.
I have no doubt that he knew damn well what he was doing when he rolled that EO out last week.
This is simply a stay of a temporary order. Either side claiming this is a “win” or “loss” is getting way ahead of themselves. Reminds me of the Superbowl.
@tpgsr and @JayS Thanks for the actual responses. :tup: This is something that I’m still learning about.
@nermoria You either like to put words in people’s mouths or just can’t stop yourself from going on pointless rants. We’re on the same team here, man. Let’s keep the discussion relevant.
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And holy shit I’m just noticing the ads that show up on this site now. lol
Yeah, they’re already reportedly amending it(I posted a link earlier). So when they amend it, we’re both right.
From what I’ve read, It would likely be heard before he’s confirmed, unless the DOJ pumps the brakes. If they pump the brakes on getting it to the SCOTUS, we’re likely outside of the 90 day window, and the only thing remaining are the 120 and indefinite bans. At that point a significant portion of the states arguments wouldn’t really be valid anymore, so there wouldn’t really be a need to continue at that point.
Based on the suit that was filed, I’m not sure the lower courts ruling would be overturned anyway (even with an odd number of justices) but we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.
He had clear authority in this case. The law is clear and simple, nobody has superceding authority just because they decide they do. Otherwise, why the hell do we even have a president? What next, they will decide whether he can execute a certain spec ops raid?
Honestly, what is there to even debate over? The law gives the President complete authority of something, he acts on it and that’s it! If the law is bad, it should be changed. It is still the law though.
Also, how do you prove danger when the far left don’t believe certain things to be dangerous? That only works if we believe that the judges are not politically bent or unbiased, which they clearly are.
I don’t get the whole idea of American “justice and fairness” if all of this is fine. To me it becomes a complete farce. It’s like saying you are free while wearing a collar.
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I’m sorry I don’t see that. Must be my Russian brain
On that note in my defense, being born in a completely socialist country with a president who has been there for decades, I have a different world view and my mind works a bit different. For instance Chaos Theory and Fermis methods are how I approach many things. (To me that makes sense and is relevant)
And I could totally have a beer with you , we are on the same side
Maybe. Or they rushed it into implementation without considering any of the several shortfalls. Giuliani even said that Trump had contacted him prior to ‘make it legal’. Hopefully it gets some necessary changes to allow LEGAL immigrants to still travel as they should and still applies some added security. (Although the list of countries could use some serious work but that’s another topic.) I don’t disagree with a slow down of immigration from unstable countries with known terrorism, but this EO totally missed the mark and will probably hurt us in the long run.
Being a business negotiator and writing policy seem like very different things to me.
Which shows one of the downsides of being an outsider and not a politician and probably not knowing the way D.C. works. Something I heard which i agree with is that people were just shocked at this as ysually politicians talk but don’t actually do anything.
I’m not going to say that it’s the reason, but maybe if the left were more interested in working with him, rather than throwing temper tantrums, they might be able to inject their opinions into his policy.
They’ve basically kicked and screamed their way out of having any impact on his policy, that it’s basically all Republican at this point. The Democrats have some respectable people working for them, but they can’t get out of their own way and Trump certainly isn’t making room for them at this point.
Sure, there’s enough blame to go around for everyone, but I don’t see this storm blowing past anytime soon. It will be left vs right for some time to come.
I just hope I don’t have to see chuck crying on TV anymore and Cuomo using photos of him pushing cars from a 2014 storm to make themselves relevant to the public.
When doing something that he has no legal right to do, not because of a political agenda. The judicial system is not supposed to be a check on the personality of a president, just because they don’t like him ( which is clearly the case here) but on the power of a president which in this case he had.
If it wasnt for Democrats and MSM going apeshit, there would never have been a stay from Washington. There’s nothing more to it
Edit: and if I am uneducated as to how the system works in the USA and that nothing is that straightforward as the law says, where in the world were the Republicans all these years of Obama? (Meaning if there were all these ways around the authority of the President and EO’s, why did they just cry about it and do nothing?)
