I’m a Trump supporter and this looks bad. I find the claim that Trump didn’t know anything about this meeting with his son that was arranged through multiple emails pretty hard to believe. If there is proof he did know they better be running it through Hillary’s email bleacher.
Thanks for being honest. Given this email chain, I don’t really see how anyone could call this a witch hunt any more.
I think it’s silly to think Jr. wouldn’t have let him know, though it was likely via a phone call rather than email. Reportedly, the evening after Jr. confirmed the meeting, Trump was at a campaign event and said he was going to have a press conference in the next week dishing all the dirt on the Clinton’s. Also, I think the the acknowledgement that Manafort was involved really eliminates all the “Jr. was naive and didn’t know what he was doing” excuses. I’m sure there’s a whole new realm of excuses to come on that.
Lol did you think I was being serious about the gender thing? “Looking through a glass” and all that.
So considering me being a conservative Evangelical Christian you must know that when it comes to Trumps personality , what he tweets etc it disgusts me in some way… However it doesn’t make me start seeing Commies and lies behind every corner, any more so than any politician, media outlet , Hollywood star etc. Lets be real, there is no center in American politics today. The vast majority of the media is left, some right and unbiased reporting without a spin towards one side or the other does not exist except among the “insignificant” sole journalists that can’t compete with the corporate giants.
I honestly don’t understand how this email thing is bad aside from being a nuisance and proving that both the Trump administration and campaign team is not made of expert political operatives. It was a bunch of political amateurs and I see Trump Jr in these emails as someone who will take anything if he thinks it will help bring Hillary down. In the end nothing came of it and on the larger picture it doesn’t add anything to the Russia Collusion conspiracy theory.
Btw its kind of hard to put forth links etc when you are posting from your phone on a break
Can we talk about what everyone is ignoring? The factual Hillary Ukraine collision? Thats the difference, she knew how to do it and get away with it. Thats the difference between an amateur and a political expert. The establishment know how to lie and do outrageous things and get away with them as if nothing happened or come out winning peace prizes. It wasn’t enough to land her the White House though
What bothers me most about this was how poorly they handled it. I’d be willing to bet almost any politician would have taken dirt offered by the Russians on their opponent and I guarantee the Clintons would have. They happily took in millions from Russia to the Clinton Foundation and then Russia just happened to get a great uranium deal. But the smoking gun isn’t there. They weren’t so stupid as to leave a totally traceable email trail like this. That’s why you setup private servers, wipe them, then refuse to hand them over to the FBI and insist on your private IT team doing the research on them when they get hacked.
In any event this puts to rest the “it’s just a witch hunt, there’s nothing there” line of defense. Now we have to spend the next 1-2 years in investigation mode and I’m sure the left will happily drag that out as long as possible.
This sounds like a trap set for them.
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If nothing was exchanged this whole thing matters even less…
Does it though? The fact that a Russian lawyer said “I’ve got some great dirt on Clinton” and Trump Jr was all excited to meet and discuss it is bad. Regardless of if that info turned out to be crap or not. They don’t have to show Trump gave the Russian’s something in return. The whole investigation is about if they colluded with Russia or not and this meeting is pretty damning.
That’s what I mean about them being amateur and that’s the biggest thing going against this administration. Not being politicians is good for the people and what they want, not good for politics and the Washington establishment.
It doesn’t matter though if it wasn’t this Russia thing, unless Trump would fall in line with everyone, there is no chance of the establishment going “Ok Mr President, lets give you a chance”. They will drag it out and try to make him as ineffective as possible.
What did we expect though when he stood there during the swearing in ceremony and ripped into the people sitting around him, the MSM being part of that group?
None of this is organic “will of the people” type of thing, when some Chuck Schumer or Pelosi etc come out with a line that starts with “The American people want…” if you have any semblance of sanity you understand its a bunch of horse crap, the idea that they really care for “the will of the people” is insane.
When they trash Putin, Russia and the oligarchs…they are doing the same thing just putting the “American smile” on it where the Russians are more open about it
see this: Reddit - Dive into anything
So there’s a bunch of characters here. A brief summary of those involved and whether I think they could be convicted of a crime based on currently known facts/reasonable inferences from known facts. Going from least to most jeopardy:
- Rob Goldstone Probably not
Setting up the meeting alone probably doesn’t make him a criminal. It’s skeezy as heck, but I don’t really see a criminal statute sticking here. Maybe if more came out about the meeting’s content.
- Natalia Veselnitskaya Maybe.
Would depend on proving a lot of things we know the Russian government generally did, but that we don’t know she specifically did/knew about. Trump Jr’s statements so far have tended to insulate her by indicating nothing of value was said at the meeting, though of course Trump Jr could be lying.
If you can show she was a willing participant in coordinating/releasing hacks of the Podesta/DNC emails, then that’s a crime under the CFAA.
- Donald Trump, Jr. Maybe
If Trump Jr is lying about the content of the conversation and Veselnitskaya did offer hacked information to the Trump campaign, he could also face the CFAA charges mentioned earlier, as could the others at the meeting. Additionally, there is an argument that soliciting aid from a foreign person/power would violate campaign finance laws, and that this conduct would count. Though I also take seriously the skepticism expressed here by Orin Kerr.
- Paul Manafort Maybe+
Manafort gets all of the above, plus he also has substantial financial irregularities surrounding his mortgage secured after leaving the Trump campaign. If Manafort was in the pay of the Russian government while working for the Trump campaign, and was simultaneously taking these meetings where the Russian government was offering support, that’s way over the line of campaign finance laws.
- Jared Kushner Yes.
Kushner, unlike the rest of the gang here, took a job in the US government after the campaign. In that job, he got (and somehow still has) a security clearance.
To get that, you need to fill out form SF-86. That form asks:
Have you or any member of your immediate family in the past seven (7) years had any contact with a foreign government, its establishment (such as embassy, consulate, agency, military service, intelligence or security service, etc.) or its representatives, whether inside or outside the U.S.? (Answer ‘No’ if the contact was for routine visa applications and border crossings related to either official U.S. Government travel or foreign travel on a U.S. passport.)
Kushner according to press reports, answered ‘no’ to this question. This was an affirmative lie. Lying on that form is a felony. Jared Kushner provably committed that felony. He did so in relation to a matter that was recent (so he didn’t have much time to forget) and where it was a matter of significant public interest where he would be unlikely to forget.
He also of course faces the possible charges everyone above him on the list does.
- Special note: Donald Trump, Sr., President of the United States.
None of the documentation personally implicates Trump, Sr. Though the emails do reference the desire of the Russian government to get the information to him, and specify possible means of doing so. It has also been pointed out that Trump tweeted about Clinton’s “missing” emails shortly after the meeting took place.
Also keep in mind that impeachable conduct does not appear to be limited to criminal behavior.
Here’s the thing, for this Russia Collusion conspiracy to work and make logical sense, if Russia was actually paying for any of this ie Manafort, Russia should get something out of it.
Having Trump for president is FAR worse for the Russians especially considering how much they benefitted from the Obama presidency! Where the latter is not an assumption but backed by factual events, treaties, deals.
For the most part everything to do with the Russia conspiracy has been based on assumptions and taking the word of some msm reporter and trusting that they have a neutral position which is impossible.
Again at what point does Russia benefit? They dont spend money effort unless they gain something from it. Then again a frozen US political system with America fighting itself may be the best thing the Russians could hope for and possibly their end goal
With some of shit you post, who can really tell what you’re serious about or not?
Let me know when you get around to those nominees…
Hmm I think you make assumptions make up facts etc who’s the one to say which one of us is right?
Hillary would have been an absolute hawk with respect to Russia, especially given the election meddling. She would have furthered sanctions, and moved Putin and his cronies further from access to western banks. I think it’s pretty straightforward why they wanted trump in. Plus they have the piss videos to hold over his head
The election meddling would not have been a story if she was in at all. They have been doing it with every election just as we have been to other countries. Where was the Hillary hawk during her tenure at the State Dept? Clearly Russia benefitted.
Clearly Russia had nothing to gain with Trump unless they believe like the rest of the liberals that he is an idiot and would run it into the ground.
This history though shows that Russia already benefitted with Obama/Hillary with clear gains, why would Russia want to change that? The arms treaty alone should be enough to get Russia support for the Dems indefinitely
Edit: superfan I admit on the nomination front it is the Presidents fault he has 350 + positions he has not given names for, even if the process for each one so far has been historically high.
On a totally different note, does anybody think that the majority of the people will unite behind a candidate/president either party puts forth going forward? Regardless of whose fault it is we are here today, it seems highly unlikely we will have a president from either side that most people will accept anymore.
Also if this was real and not a Dem operative setup, explain the Fusion GPS , and Russian lawyer Obama connection, Russian lawyer avidly at the March for Women which was clearly antiTrump. She must have been keeping up a cover right? Being a KGB agent and all that. Things keep coming out which point to this being nothing again just a conspiracy theory by lunatic left
You’re right. Apparently, the fact that Trump Jr set up a meeting with them for this reason is enough to count as conspiracy. Even if he didn’t receive anything from them. (This was on the NPR politics podcast from yesterday) The email chain is proof of his intention as well as the involvement of Jared and Paul Manafort. It’s highly unlikely that DJT wasn’t aware of it as well, but we’ll see what comes out from the investigation.
As for the left dragging it out. I don’t think anyone wants to drag it out. I really think that everyone just wants this dealt with and over. This whole thing is exhausting.
Lol the Russia investigation was started by Brennan and Comey on the basis of the dossier which has been proved to be fake, funded by an opposition research group.
Not a conspiracy theory? Get real.
“Lets bomb your family, brainwash you, offer you to buy a gun, arrest you when you try to buy it, we are great heroes for Americas protection” is the gist of this
…no words for this.
In a republican controlled house, senate, and WH… mmhmmm.
What the…
Saying this to a person who is only stating easily observable facts. ^
Just thought that there were a few things worth highlighting.
I used to read some of your posts for entertainment value since it’s like having the combined mouthpiece of Alex Jones and Breitbart right here on NYSpeed, but your tin foil hat is making BED look like Tom Brokaw. Do SOME reading and objective analysis before spilling your bullshit all over your keyboard.
Hahahaha somebody who is into the Russia conspiracy telling me I have a tin foil hat on? You do not know the meaning of objective analysis! Listen to a fellow liberal Alan Dershowitz who actually knows what he’s talking about and has an iq that breaks 50
Im supposed to believe NPR over factual events? You do the reading someplace other than Salon
I guess in your mind anything pro conservative and anti liberal is a conspiracy. I dont believe in aliens lol you made my day!
Either way…
It’s not a conspiracy theory anymore. Jr, tweeted out the evidence… Are you trolling?
Is the National Review a liberal rag too?