this is arguable both ways but unless you’re the next lewis hamilton chances are the first track day is a lot of drag racing with turns in the middle. The challenge is to stay on the race line when all conditions are perfect.
The nice thing about dunnville is that it gives lots of chances to cool the brakes just when they need it.
In an evo, stock fluid may not cut it. stock pads might be fine, worst case you just take it easy with the hero braking.
I didn’t think that doing fluids like the transfer case at 20k was important…
The fluids where done at 12k… they need to be done again… they will be done before the track day.
the Pads are ordered HP+… I will have to get the Fluid… but I think Ive seen it at local autoparts stores so Ill grab it when Im doing the pads.
for now unless a deal slaps me in the face… my all-seasons will have to do. Im not a poser and will push my car… maybe not as hard as theblue…
I also have a friend comming who is decent driver (he does auto-x and other racing) who will play with the evo also…
Most importent I want to be able to drive up and back… I think the evo should be fine… just looking for Ideas to make it a bit more fun/safe
I will remove the heatshields when I do the pads also thank you… (is it bolted on from the rear or do I have to take the rotors off?)
Edit: if I was going to just idle around the track I would take the TDI and atleast get good MPG…lol
I drove home from Dunnville making an awful scraping noise. My backing plate was touching the rotor and the stock pads were almost brand new when I started.
Saying I am wrong is not totally accurate either.
I admit there are many variables, two of the big ones are; track and skill.
I know some very, very fast drivers that drive all day on stock pads but they are very highly skilled and don’t have to beat the fuck out their brakes to drive fast.
So maybe saying those things are overrated is not accurate in all cases.
^ Talent won’t help you save stock brakes at Dunnville. There are decent straights with sharp turns and no amount of driving skill is going to get you around the turn at the end of each straight without some serious braking. Perfect line and pro-racing ability might carry you through 5 mph faster, but you’re still scrubbing off 30mph or more.
And I’m not quite sure how a talented driver isn’t beating the hell out of their brakes. To go as fast as possible you want to be either 100% on the gas or 100% on the brakes. Anything less is coasting and that’s not what great drivers do on a track. Obviously in the turn you don’t have 100% to work with, but you still want to be using as close to 100% of your traction as possible. That’s how you go fast.
I’ve only been to TMP and Dunnville, two pretty small tracks when compared to Watkins or Nelson Ledges but through the SCCA I’ve met a lot of people who had been to much more serious track days than I’ve been at and not one has ever said, “oh yeah, stock brakes are fine as long as you’re a good enough driver”. Completely the opposite actually; the better you get the harder you’re going to push and the faster your stock system is going to fail.
Unlike most topics on NYSpeed this one is pretty serious. If you’re going 100 mph behind someone who actually spent a few bucks to properly prepare their car for the track day, and that person jams on the brakes for turn one, you better be able to slow down as well. All these cheaper track days need is some noob rear ending someone at racing speeds to end it for all of us.
Like I said, there are a lot of factors.
I guess I was assuming if this guy doesn’t know what to do he probably wasn’t at the level of a pro racer.
I was thinking more of learning at school than going to the track for a day with no instruction and no experience and seeing if you can threshold brake enough times to burn up your brakes.
Knowing your limits is important.
This is why I don’t don’t attend NYSPEED track days.
sidenote; I did change the brake fluid on my Evo when I went.
[quote=JayS;918277I’ve only been to TMP and Dunnville, two pretty small tracks when compared to Watkins or Nelson Ledges but through the SCCA I’ve met a lot of people who had been to much more serious track days than I’ve been at and not one has ever said, “oh yeah, stock brakes are fine as long as you’re a good enough driver”. Completely the opposite actually; the better you get the harder you’re going to push and the faster your stock system is going to fail.
[/quote]
This is an incorrect blanket statement. A novice will tend to over slow their car, using much more brake than needed. This will heat the pad/rotor/fluid to the point where more and more pedal pressure is required to slow the car. This in turn can cause excessive pad wear.
My first weekend at Watkins Glen I burned up a set of pads. 4 seasons later I get 4 weekends out of a set of pads.
There are too many factors to determine what pads are needed. Vehicle weight, brake cooling, pad/rotor size, tire compound, track, speed, time on track, etc. What might work for one car isn’t necessarily the case for another.
^ From what I’ve seen Watkins and heard from Watkins regulars it’s a whole lot different than Dunnville though. Watkins there are some pretty fast turns where you can save brakes if you’re comfortable enough with your car to take them at high speed. Dunnville’s turns are all pretty tight so the speed difference through the turns from novice to pro isn’t going to be that much.
EX:
If the max speed a pro can make it through a turn is 90 you’re going to see some novices going much slower.
If the max speed a pro can make it through a turn is 45 the difference for novices is going to be less, especailly when compared to how hard the brakes are working.
:word: i change mine atleast every 3k just because of the power levels im putting down, but im getting my tranny built this coming winter before it blows up… NLTS is gonna take its toll on it this year lol
For an absolute novice it can be true, straight line breaking is encouraged until more advanced techniques are learned. The exception would be tighter turns where grip matters more than power.
I’ve never been to Dunville, but I can tell you the speed differential between the straights and the turns is probably greater at WGI. Turn 1 was usually taken around 60 mph in my Porsche after I hit 120 on the front straight. The back straight was even faster at 140 slowing to less than 70. A better suspension and better set of tires would allow for higher speeds through the turns, but more experience would help just as much.
When you cut out the next two sentences I wrote, no it’s not.
Anyway, do what you want. The OP clearly understands you shouldn’t be taking a bone stock car and tracking it. I’ve personally seen an Evo with a good driver cook it’s stock brakes at TMP, and TMP isn’t as hard on brakes as Dunnville. If you want to pay for 20 minute sessions and run 10 minutes at a time, or risk heading out into the field because you can’t slow down for turn one it ain’t my car.
Regardless of how awesome you are and how you can get around the Nurburgring in a 500 HP muscle car with drum brakes without them fading, the typical novice who comes here asking for suggestions for prepping a car for a lapping day isn’t being helped by telling him his stock brakes might be up to the task. A set of HP+ pads for the front is around $130, and enough Super Blue to flush the entire system isn’t going to be much more than $25. So for around $150 it seems pretty stupid to debate something as critical as brakes.
With that I’m out. Hope everyone is safe at the BBQ race, I know I’m waiting for a little later in the season.
Even with the two other sentences it is not. You are basically saying that you are either WOT or as hard on the brakes as possible which is wrong. Just because you aren’t using each peddle to it’s full extent does not mean you are coasting. One of the most important things that separates a good driver from a poor driver is their foot work.
What separates a good driver from a poor one is knowing how to use 100% of his traction at all times, and knowing the best line to use it on. That might be 50% for throttle and 50% for turning, or 100% for throttle, or 100% for braking. But if you’re only using 50% of the traction it means you aren’t going fast enough.
All pointless in a novice thread though since they should be braking in a straight line and carrying the right speed through the corner.
You do not need more than stock brakes during a lapping day where there is no competition and it’s all just for fun. Just make sure they have plenty of life left.
If you feel your car getting harder to stop, head back to the pits and let it cool down. If you push it so hard that you loose all pedal pressure, and go off course (also known as driving past your limit) you’ll either be told to go into the pits and wait, or if you do it repeatedly, you’ll be kicked out.
That being said, buying upgraded pads / lines is never a bad idea.
But arguments like the one going on in this thread are what scare new people from wanting to try a track day. It’s a misconception that you need to have a track built car, upgraded this, upgraded that if you want to have fun out there and be safe.
Anyone with a bone-stock car can come to a track day and have fun and be safe. It all depends on the driver knowing his and his car’s limits.
Yeah, I didn’t mean to derail this thread.
I said at least twice that there are a lot of variables.
I was speaking from experience of the Evo (and many German cars) at The Glen in a driving school.
I have admited that it is quite different from what this is about.
Great point. You will probably learn more from a bone stock car than you would from a slightly to fully built car. Swaying suspension and squeeling tires help you identify the limits of the car or identify if you are taking a bad line.
