So two wrongs make a right?
Oddly enough there happens to be a drug rep that goes to Strom Memorial in Roch. that has a Pharm D. I hear she does well as far as her job is concerned. It goes to show you the difference between a drug rep and a real pharmacist. They can explain things that a regular drug rep couldn’t. And thats the shame, the more you know, the better you will sell and the better the doctor will be prepared to give the best treatment possible. Thats how drugs should be sold, a doctor to a doctor.
but drug reps aren’t about saving lives or improving them, they are all about sales, and know the game just well enough to get that signature. Give out free shit, explain the majr draws and minimize the side effects. Which there are ALWAYS a possibility to side effects with ANY drug btw. and of course all that free shit and even the names given to drugs are meant to help sell. In the end, its all about money.
and as much as we can blame the pharm reps, what about the doctors? Did you ever notice in a hospital that alot of the doctors and all of the residents carry a blackberry device? that is what they store drug information; doses, side effects, pharmacological pathway etc. this info is not memorized, its often looked up. And of course, if the doctor can’t remember what drug to give but notices a pen sitting there and then 1+1= that patient gets the drug on that pen because the doctor couldn’t recall other similiar drugs.
wow, I’m not going to bother picking through all the bullshit in this post, but I’ll reply when I get back from ze gym.
-edit-
this will have to wait, too much life, not enough free time to educate the masses.
I was sitting low after my first post but I guess I should throw my .02 back in.
R&D is ungodly expensive. For every 100 drugs developed, 1 goes into production. Where does the drug company get the money to pay for that? By selling that drug and making as much money as possible off that drug to pay for it’s employees and more importantly, fund new drugs, so the cycle can repeat itself. They make money by sales, just like every other business in this free market society.
Yes the drug companies make a lot of money… But why shouldn’t they? You’re not yelling at the local SONY rep at Stereo Advantage because he’s in there telling the sales associates that they should sell only SONY because SONY is the best hands down? He’s there to make money also. But I guess it’s okay for that person to go out and spend $3000 on a TV, but not spend the money on needed prescription drugs, because the drugs “should be given to them” or so everyone thinks.
Don’t tell me the job that I do, promoting my products to doctors, isn’t worth it for the patients. If not for me, most patients wouldn’t know about my products because neither would the doctors, and therefore would live with a lower quality of life. All I ask for in the doctors is to give the product a try by giving out samples, and if it works for the patient then they use it. If it doesn’t work, obviously the doctor isn’t going to keep them on it and the patient isn’t going to keep paying for it. I don’t know how many times I’ve talked to a doctor and explained the mechanism of action of my product and they sit back and say “oh, thats interesting, I didn’t know that, I think xxx patient would benefit from that.” And it’s even more fulfilling when a patient using my products comes up and thanks me because it really does work for them.
So yeah, all drug companies are about themselves, they don’t care about the patients (our customers).
And Simplyfocused, fuck you if you think I don’t have enough education to go out and promote my products to the “all-mighty doctors.” I have a 4 year college degree, just like everyone else in the industry. I went to training and learned everything about the drug, (seriously, how long do you think it takes to learn all about 1 drug) certainly not 1-3 years. I’m not out there diagnosing patient’s so I don’t think I need to go to school for 8 years to sell pharmaceuticals. The pharmacist can relate to certain things with the doctor and she has a little more “experience” with all types of drugs, but in the end it all comes down to product knowledge. If you have that, it doesn’t matter what title you hold.
get off my nuts, a doctor selling to another is ideal situation. I’m sorry but if i carried an MD, I think I would listen to someone more intently that had a D next to their name. And i think you would too. That title is worth gold It takes 8 years to understand how the body is effected by drugs. After that you apply the knowledge. While it isn’t necessary, i do think that the pharmacist has not the experience but more knowledge to apply about a certain drug. I don’t care how long you spent learning about the drug, there are going to be things that a guy with a pharm doctorate will better explain then youu will. I know you know enough to sell and make doctors listen, but i think they know a little bit more.
With your logic, you’d be the guy to bring a full size SUV to tow a small 2 foot tire trailer.
Whilst I do agree where an MD obviously knows more about the human body than our friend Jordan over here, you also must understand that making an MD (who could be utilized to treat patients, rather than run around and sell drugs) would not only be :
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Not cost effective, because anyone with an MD is probably not going to take a job paying sub 100K, especially when they are paying back their school loans that are probably now upwards of 300K.
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Not potentially effective, because a doctor, while uninformed about a drug, doesn’t need a pharm rep to baby feed him every single detail of a drug. Doctors (believe it or not) are smart people, and do their own research on drugs. A doc just needs to hear about the drug and the general pros and cons. That’s the primary job of the pharmacy reps.
You know what the first thing a doctor asks when a rep shows up to sell them something? Prove it.
hahaha true
And the compliance officer says
“don’t worry, you’ll get mush every day, it doesn’t change”
:smash2:
:word:
Your analogy is correct Howie.
Most doctors don’t have time, nor do they care to listen to all the little bullshit that happens in the body that doesn’t have to do with efficacy and side effects. I do know it, but I rarely, if ever, do I get asked about it.
And also, have you talked to some pharmacists or doctors. Some have the personality of a wet rag. They know a ton of medical shit, but can’t hold a conversation to save their lives. There’s a different place for everyone.
lol this is very true. The nurse practitioner is much more personable than my doctor, although she seems even more pressed for time.
Here is the reality of the situation. Medicine is a business, if you don’t understand that, then you should move to Vietnam or China. The grossest examples of this comes from the Doctors, NOT sales people. If you want to complain, complain about people receiving treatments based on reimbursement, and not efficacy. Doctor’s will do whatever possible to retain patients, and cut as much as possible, when it is proven that there are treatments out there that will leave patients with a better quality of life. It doesn’t matter what the sales rep says if the Dr. isn’t going to end up with the reimbursement for the treatment.
Is that right? No. Is there anything you can do about it? Nope. There is no law that states that any one Dr. has to agree with any other, and as such could recommend watchful waiting as a cure for AIDS if they felt like it. It just means that as a patient, with any condition, it’s your responsibility to do your homework as well, to make sure that you are getting all of the facts.
With so much prosecution going on these days, corporate compliance programs are a huge deal. They take these things very seriously, and in theory, Drs do as well. No Dr is going to switch to a new treatment based solely on a $75 dinner. His practice and medical insurance premiums aren’t worth it. Sorry, this is where reality differs from the “concerned activists reality”. And it is the sales forces job to educate the Doctors, and the medical companies job to provide training.
You know what a Doctor hates more than anything? Losing time in their office. That means lost income, and fewer patients treated. As such, they rely on others (be it Doctor’s, sales people, conventions or research) to help educate them about the latest information in their specialty. When a company creates a new device or drug, no one is more educated about the facts behind it than the sales force. It is their job to sell with information, provide the Doctor the reasons that it was developed, and the benefits that it has for the patient. Can you make shit up? Sure, if you don’t’ want a job at a reputable company for very long. Besides, when a clinician tries a treatment/drug and it doesn’t get the result they expected, they aren’t going to continue to use it, contrary to what people in this thread would like you to believe.
I could go on, but I’d rather not. Pig headed youth ignorance will never succeed to knowledge, and I’m just wasting my breath.
Cliffs: Medicine is a business, make sure you do your homework before letting someone go harry cary on your body.
lol, a compliance officer? That’s a joke. I’ve seen one in my life, and he was getting fucked up with everyone else at a bar - that the pharm rep was “sponsoring”
PS. My uncle is a family practitioner.
PPS. My cousin is a GI
PPPS. My other cousin is a Cardiologist
PPPPS. My other cousin is a Physical Therapist
PPPPPS. I suck at life.
FYI - I’m salaried, and reimbursement has nothing to do with what treatment decisions I make (I tend not to know what insurance my patients have). Also, I’d like to see anyone prove changes in my prescribing habits due to a $10 lunch. (Does it happen? I’m sure it does - but I get no personal benefit from changing)
But yes, bottom line - medicine is a business just like any other. How important is the economic aspect? Can’t make ends meet? Well, there’s a closed hospital here that reinforces that point. At some point, we all have to pay for what we get… IMO healthcare itself is not a right (access to healthcare is, though).
Oh, no i agree with you 100% completely. That is overkill. My point is that a pharmacist makes a good drug rep. The one that I know of does very well and is very popular with the docs at Strom. For her its a nice part time job. She often holds seminars to discuss the drugs. And for that reason she can relate to the doctors and put together a really effective seminar. and maybe thats why she does so well. That is why that Doctorate matters just a little bit. even though doctors are smart people they are busy people just the same and saving time on looking up the nitty gritty stuff because researching research can be a painfully long and drawn out process.
Oh you are a surgeon? I didn’t know.
PPPPPPS I do this for a living.
PPPPPPPS. Nothing I posed was heard 57th hand. :smash2:
Meh, I’m telling you how I saw it, whenever I worked at my uncle’s office.
Maybe you’re all straightedge and legit for the compliance officer…
PPPPPPPPS. I’m not telling you 2nd hand info either 