Mobuzzkill4u has brought this up a couple of times. So, here’s why I’m young with a promising future and a (slight in my case) lefty twist:
#1 - After we learned some things from the great depression, we came up with Glass-Steagal, which among other things said a bank couldn’t be an investment firm which couldn’t be an insurance company. The right shot holes in it in the early 80’s and we got the S&L disaster in the late 80’s. They finished it off in the late 90’s with Grahm-Leach-Bliley and we got the current housing crisis. Granted there were other things at play and we could argue this for pages on end, but I personally am convinced that the financial industry needs SOME regulation for long-term stability. Thus I currently think that having the dems in control of the economy will make me more money than I will lose in added taxes.
#2 - Foreign policy. The Bush years served their purpose, but 4 more years of the same is just going to make us more enemies and cost us more money that needs to go to number 3.
#3 - Government spending stimulates the economy and makes me more money. Deficit spending in an emergency works too. See: now. Learn about Keynsian economics for more. Again, this is just my view. We can and do debate this ad naseum. To be clear, I’m not saying spend spend spend. Shit swings, and government spending can and should clip the bottom of swings. Think: stability.
#4 - Get your back asswards neochristian morals the fuck out of my private life. Abortion is legal but stem cell research got a fucking presidential veto? DIAF. The federal government has any position whatsoever on marriage? How is this constitutional? (Yes I know the dems won’t go for gay marriage either, but they’re the lesser of two evils and the Libertarian party doesn’t really count.)
#5 - In my life: Reagan - bust, Bush - War, Clinton - boom & peace, Bush - 2 busts & 2 wars. Dur, thank you sir may I have another?
So no the left isn’t the alpha and omega of American politics. Without each party pulling the other towards center we’d spiral the fuck out of control. But after the last 8 years we need a strong jerk back to the left. After Obama’s first term, a strong moderate Republican would probably be my next choice, but I don’t see anyone on the horizon so I’m fully expecting 8 years of Obama. I’d love to see a Libertarian president actually shrink the government, but it would probably be more likely for my shit to turn purple and smell like rainbow sherbert and Ron Paul to actually see an end to the Fed.
I like your views. I find I’m a little on the right but on economy, I am split down the middle on most social values and totally agree that a smaller Fed would be awesome but not in our near future.
I agree with a decent bit of what you said but you yourself might want to read more - Keynsian economics and “pump priming” work SO WELL that they had a “lost decade” in Japan in the 90s… sorry, try again there Fry.
I was successful and leaned left but I can’t compete with over-seas slave wages so now I’m unsuccessful. We need to keep our labor here in our own country.
wow, u were really on the right track untl this thread, im not going to waste my time typing out a long ass response that noone wll answer too because the have no answer but im dissapointed in you.
1.) After sitting through enough econ and finance classes, the historical case studies show time and time again that Keynesian economics saves economies, then they start to get more and more Austrian to maximize profits, then the whole thing blows up, and they give Keynes another shot.
2.) I think supply-side economics and “trickle down” is a load of shit. Give the rich tax cuts, and they trickle down as far as their pockets. See, Bush, G.W. All Reagan’s supply-side economics did is start a death spiral for the middle class and perpetuate a two-class society.
3.) “Moral Values”. I don’t understand the right’s insistence that if they’re against something, not only will they not do it, but they want a law so you can’t do it either. Really? You’re against stem cells because while they save lives, they have to use extra embryos for the process instead of throwing them out? :bloated: Antonin Scalia just said he would have voted against desegregation. REALLY?
4.) Foreign policy. The day when we can be fucking cowboys and do whatever the hell we please, the rest of the world be damned, is behind us. We’re an interdependent global society now. There are TONS of benefits to global cooperation when the rest of the world doesn’t hate us. Also, we have enough problems back home. We don’t have the money or expendable servicemen to travel the globe settling the right’s grudges with everyone. If you’re going to spend us into oblivion, do it on something we can use. For all the gripe about healthcare reform, it’s going to cost less than Iraq. Now which of those do you actually see benefits from?
5.) Goes along with the Moral Values, but religion has no place in government.
6.) The right always sides with the business over the consumer or employee, less regulation over more regulation, the big guy over the little guy, the rich over the poor, etc. They have an interest in seeing the big get bigger, rich get richer, etc., cause that’s their supporters. I don’t want a government run by the corporations.
7.) The drug war. Both sides are at fault here, but the left is leading the little efforts to cut down on it. Gigantic waste of money.
8.) Age warfare. The right has no interest in my age bracket. They design their policies toward senior citizens, since that’s who votes.
9.) While I may be paying more in taxes, I believe stimulating the economy from the bottom up will lead to another period of economic prosperity that more than makes up for it. Clinton’s terms were a great example of this. You put the money in the hands of the rich, they pocket the vast majority of it. You put it in the hands of the poor, they go out and spend the whole thing instantly. They stimulate production, which stimulates hiring, which gives them jobs, which gives them more money, rinse and repeat.
About # 3, have you read “The Broken Window Fallacy?”
And overall, anyone who believes the United States is heading in the right direction is blind. Don’t even try and tell me that you think we will be in a good financial position in 20-30years.
I really do appreciate the answers Joe and Fry (as im sure youre busy guys and dont need to explain yourself to a pestering kid), and while I see your points and respectfully disagree with some, you definitely answered my question and helped me learn about political psychology in general. I knew there were reasons why financially successful people leaned left, but I honestly struggled to find them, so as I said, this answered my question perfectly.
I guess more than anything I appreciate voters who know what they are voting for. For every guy like you two, there are four assholes (possibly including myself) who vote for pretty much one aspect of a candidates agenda, which imho is very wrong. In my defense, im not a Dem hater, I liked a lot of things I saw in Clinton and (the first president I was of age to pay attention to) and I agree Bush did many things wrong, but growing up in this state, in this city, has really just skewed how I look at left leaning policys.
To be honest id call myself moderate right, despite the fact that my blue collar government employed parents were both Democrats, but its just Obama and his economic policies that I cant tolerate. I guess that could be another reason for my misunderstanding of blue in general, but nonetheless, I could never vote for a guy who wants to take that much money from one worker and give it to many undeserving. This country needs a revolutionary change but big O isnt it.
What im getting at is, I saw many of your points and maybe if I saw a Democratic candidate that wins my heart, I could even vote that way someday. Either way, this country needs at least two more major parties, I feel thats the biggest change we need.
Anyone who ses this in terms of right v. left is part of the problem. WASHINGTON (and Albany) are the problem. Replacing one party with another will do little good. I give the public some credit - at least at the national level when peope see how bad oe party in power is they do seem to try the other. And the cycle repeats. Now at the state level here in NY, you have to just shake your head. What was that definition of stupid? Keep doing things the same way and expecting a different result?
For the record, yeah I think we have some pretty ugly fundamental problems that both parties are heading towards. We’re broke now. I just hope that 20 years from now we haven’t traded in the civil liberties that our country was based on in an attempt to regain the prosperity that our generation has mistakenly taken as the American way of life (which it is not.)
When I played monopoly as a kid this one kid would always win. I tried several different stratagies but he always won. After I grew up I realized the one thing that never changed is that he was always the banker.
[QUOTE=MOBOOST4U;1506923]I really do appreciate the answers Joe and Fry (as im sure youre busy guys and dont need to explain yourself to a pestering kid), and while I see your points and respectfully disagree with some, you definitely answered my question and helped me learn about political psychology in general. I knew there were reasons why financially successful people leaned left, but I honestly struggled to find them, so as I said, this answered my question perfectly.
I guess more than anything I appreciate voters who know what they are voting for. For every guy like you two, there are four assholes (possibly including myself) who vote for pretty much one aspect of a candidates agenda, which imho is very wrong. In my defense, im not a Dem hater, I liked a lot of things I saw in Clinton and (the first president I was of age to pay attention to) and I agree Bush did many things wrong, but growing up in this state, in this city, has really just skewed how I look at left leaning policys.
QUOTE]
One way to help understand the economics and financial side, is reading up in it. Well worth it, many good books out there.
I would give my opnions, but prefer to stay out of these type of threads lately, but they are fun to read.
The items you bullet point as your “proof” are hilarious.
Bush 1 got us into a war? So you think we should have just sat back while Saddam took over Kuwait? I’m not naive, I know it’s about oil, and I don’t have a problem with that. In case you missed it the world runs on oil and it’s critical to keeping the world running.
You point out the deregulation of Bush 2 and the subsequent economic collapse as bad, but then point to Clinton’s tech bubble boom and lack of regulation as a positive. Maybe you were still living with mom and dad and it didn’t really affect you, but when the tech sector collapsed it hurt a lot of people too. Even funnier is that during most of the boom part of Clinton’s term you had a Republican controlled congress.
Which brings up a great point… checks and balances. I think this country works best when you have a moderate democrat in the white house but a republican congress. The president keeps the right from getting all up in your business with BS about religion, stem cells, abortion etc, but the congress moves a pro-business, less taxes, less welfare, less regulation agenda forward. But again, they can’t go too far with this agenda because they know the veto is there. It’s the old, “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” thing.
Right now, we’re in trouble. More trouble than we were when the right controlled all 3 branches because we don’t even have the filibuster option. It’s very easy to see how advancing a far left agenda works by looking at the results in dark blue states. California, NY, Taxacussettes… these aren’t shining examples of how you want your federal government to work. The first two are on the verge of bankruptcy. Even more funny when you see in the news yesterday where NY lost the majority of it’s one million citizens; Georgia, that dark red booming state to the south. And please don’t give me the, “But NY has had Republican governors” line because anyone with the slightest clue about NY politics knows this state isn’t run from Albany, it’s run from NYC and NYC is as far left as they come.
Lol, oh I have a decent grasp on finance and economics in general, but its where those facets tie to politics, the people, and constitutional law, that I have never really been concerned with in the past. For instance I have never strongly agreed with Keynes theory yet im not surprised that it came from a European. Works or not, capitalism is what this country is founded on and while I agree government MUST have a place in the private sector, in this country, it shouldnt be too strong.
Ok though, thats all ill say because as fry said, I want to hear what you Liberals feel.
Im all for hearing and valuing your views in ANY other thread than this, but please dont turn this one into a debate. We have 243258358 other threads for that. Let this be a judgement free get it off your chest Liberal professing party. Im trying to be objective and learn here lol.