Woman pays $66,000 for car that is worth $41,000


Madeline Leonard, who is unemployed and collecting a disability pension, says she was overwhelmed, confused and soon felt she had been mistreated.

Originally Posted by Wheels.ca
May 07, 2010

Tony Van Alphen
Business Reporter

The Mazda dealership in Orangeville may have given new meaning to the automaker’s slogan of “zoom, zoom, zoom” for motorist Madeline Leonard.

Leonard, who is unemployed and receiving a disability pension, walked into the dealership wanting to replace the tires on her 2004 car.

By the time she left she was on the hook for a spiffy, black 2010 Mazda6 sedan at the eye-popping price of almost $66,000, after taxes and the value of her trade-in vehicle.

That’s $25,000 more than she should have paid, according to Ontario’s auto regulator.

She says “Moe,” the salesman, talked fast. The numbers whizzed by and before she knew it she had bought the 2010 model.

“I was overwhelmed and confused and I soon felt like I had been mistreated,” the 56-year-old woman said in an interview from her small, subsidized apartment in the town 85 km northwest of Toronto.

The Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council, which regulates new and used car dealers, took action after she complained. Its investigation found she should have paid about $41,000 for the vehicle — which wasn’t even new.

“In my eight years here, I haven’t seen a case like this,” said Carey Smith, the regulator’s director of investigations. “The deal was way over the top regarding pricing.”

Smith has charged Mazda of Orangeville and two senior employees with breaching Ontario legislation that protects consumers. The dealership could face a fine of up to $250,000 if found guilty.

Kien Trung, business manager at Mazda of Orangeville and one of the employees facing charges, said he did not treat Leonard improperly or make any big profits in the deal in late December.

“We didn’t do anything wrong in the case of this transaction,” said Trung. “We made a little bit of money on the deal. I guess she was not happy with it.”

In promotional messages, the dealership says it treats customers “with dignity and respect.”

But Smith said in Leonard’s case, the store and two employees used several tactics to unfairly jack up the price.

“They put a list price of a new vehicle on the model but it was a demonstrator that the dealer used with about 6,000 kilometres on it,” he noted.

Mazda Canada lists the base price of the new sedan at $39,969 on its national website, but the dealership allegedly posted a sticker of $45,846 on the car.

Smith said the salesmen also billed Leonard, who is intellectually disabled, about $4,500 for a “protection package” that included fabric guarding, rust and sound proofing and window etching. Other dealers charge about a third of that for the same items, he said.

Furthermore, Smith said Leonard should not have qualified for a loan from the dealer because her monthly income including a disability pension is less than $2,000.

But Smith added that didn’t stop the two employees from offering an eight-year loan that will result in about $16,000 in financing costs for her, including a final balloon payment of $7,000.

Mazda of Orangeville says in a promotional message for phone callers that owning “your dream vehicle might be easier than you think.” The message goes on: “If you are a great person with not-so-good credit, we have you in mind.”

Leonard said she originally came to the store to replace the tires on her 2004 Mazda3 and didn’t even want to buy a car.

“I wished I had never walked into the place,” she said. “I’ve had a lot of trouble keeping up with these payments. The stress has been terrible.”

Leonard described the salesman at the dealership as “slick” and the process mesmerized her. But after signing a contract and driving the vehicle away, she checked prices at other Mazda outlets.

“The differences were shocking,” she said. “I felt very disappointed how I was treated.”

The regulator charged the dealership; Trung, 38, of Vaughan; and sales manager Mohammed (Moe) Shaikh, 46, of Mississauga with “engaging in unfair practice by making an unconscionable representation,” contrary to the provincial Consumer Protection Act.

Trung said the defendants will plead not guilty when they appear in court this month.

Under the act, the employees could receive penalties of up to $100,000 each and/or two years less a day in jail if found guilty. The defendants could also be liable for damages to Leonard.

The regulator could also revoke the registrations of the dealerships and salesmen.

“Dealers tell me there is nothing wrong with making money but the law says there is something wrong if you take advantage of someone,” Smith said.

Mazda Canada said it would not decide on any action involving the dealership until a court rules on the charges.

“Obviously we expect our dealers and staff to operate professionally,” said spokesman Greg Young. “We’ll see what the (court) determination is.”

Mazda of Orangeville has also popped up on the radar screen of the Better Business Bureau of mid-western and central Ontario.

Although the dealership is not a member, the bureau has received six complaints and issued a D+ rating on a scale from A+ to F since January 2008.

“It speaks for itself,” said a bureau official.

“intellectually disabled” ???

Isn’t that just the nicer way of saying…idiot !!

Some people have the gift of gab. They can choose to use it for good or to reap personal benefits. When that happens, they are entirely liable. We all know there are really slick car salesmen out there, it’s the stereotype, and I’m sure most people have delt with them. Most are completely uninterested in the customer’s well-being. In an instant where you see someone who is clearly disabled, and may not be able to keep up with a pitch, they again choose to use their gift in a certain way. I believe the salesman, at the very least, will be prosecuted rightfully.

That is fucked up…shes stupid but still you dont profit 20,000 and there ratings are horrid so that speaks for itself.

hum hum… when dealer does a fales advertisement on a merchandize… that dealer will get bent over and fucked by 12 inch dick really hard by omvic.

it clearly looks like they did a fales advertise on the protection package… (there is no such thing as $4500 protection package… )

but on the other side… they did put a sticker price of $45000 on a car… even dou mazda was offering $39000… that means they didnt make a fales advertise on a price of the car alone… plus… all the sticker ads on window clearly says price does not include tax, registration fees, and minitry fees. So based on their sticker price alone by the time she walks out of the dealership… she should be expecting 51~52000 bucks… with out the protection package… oh then a 8 year finance with their rip off interest… should be at $64000… with out the protection package…

those guys made it look like it was a smooth transaction… but… i dont know what omvic thinks of it…

fuck people like these guys makes super hard working small used car dealers like me look bad…
they (mazda) pushes 16~20 new / used mazdas a week… and they still had to rip off their royal customer… wtf man…

she should of just gave me a call lol i could of hooked it up for half of that price and still cut her a better deal on finance hahahahahahahahahaha

I’ll never understand how you go to a dealer to get your tires changed and roll out with a “new” car :confused:

izzo, not hating or anything, but with English like that I would go elsewhere for a hook up.

She’s collecting disablity pension so give her a break guys…

Wow I hope the the manager and owner get charged with maximum fines. They sound like the scum of the earth… how are you going to take advantage of someone like that. It’s always the bad apples in any industry that brings down the reputation of everyone else. 56 year old woman unemployed and collecting disability pension (probably why she can’t work) thats about my moms age I’d be pissed if some scumbags took advantage of anyone in my family.

all i needed to see was the name of the salesman and new this would be hell

Karma is a bitch, these employees will learn that quick.

why are people ripping the salesmen?

this woman is a fucking moron and deserved what she got.

she could have NOT bought the car, signed anything, or said she didnt want it and fucked off.

instead she decided she wanted the car and and now she doesnt and shes crying wolf. fuck this woman, she has to learn she cant just do whatever and then undo it if she changes her mind.

Read the article?

It’s the following facts…

  1. They are violating Ontario Auto Regulations
  2. They sold her a used demonstrator model and passed it off as a new car
  3. They sold a protection package for double-triple the price it costs everywhere else

Those 3 things alone point these fuckers out as con-artists.
On top of that… read the part that shes not all there, maybe from sickness or old age who knows. They took advantage of that.

^ yes you are right.

but as for violating auto regulations… well… they didnt… because they had a sticker on a window with price teg of 46000 written on it. how much you ask for a car is alll up to you… there is no law… and all those stickers clearly says taxes, licence fees are not included…

but number 2 and 3 you stated is totally right :smiley: and no.3 is most likely a fales advertisment.

ps: reconJDM i ve never asked you to buy a car off me. where you go get rip off is all up to you.
DOUBBLE PS: not to be hating on you but i dont usually talk to nerds on ruckus scooter too so dont worry. 636cc or go home.

what if that moron was your mother, would you still make the same statement.

The point here is the sales people are at fault and need to have tougher regulations, how happy would you be if the prices at each best buy were different and you had to haggle each time to get your product.

Good Day.

yes original dirft master you are right. but… imo best buy and futureshop would be a differnt example since they dont carry used brand… but thing about the used car is that… there is no price for it… every used car is differnt… 06 civic could have 50k km up to 130k km… and warrenty comes into play (5years or 100 000km.) but once again in this case… those idiots sold it as a brand new car not a demo special… fales advertisment once again :smiley:

I was a salesman for Mazda in the past (NOT ORANGEVILLE), and I nor my former dealer would ever thing of ripping somebody off like that… sure we can make a little extra but not that outragous figure! OMVIC and other powers at be is going to rip that dealer a new one! I hope they get 2 years in jail and fined, also hope the dealer gets the max of the $250,000. That why the owner and the GM are more on top of things like that and make sure they hire the proper people! In any business rep is everything!

GUYS!!! I WAS A SALESMAN FOR MAZDA OF ORANGEVILLE LESS THAN ONE MONTH AGO - I HAVE BEEN WITH MAZDA FOR ALMOST 3 YEARS AND RECENTLY SWITCHED TO ORANGEVILLE - I CAN VOUCH FOR ANYTHING THAT HAS GONE ON THERE - I WORKED THERE FOR 2 MONTHS AND I CAN LIST MANY THINGS THAT WERE WRONG AND UN JUST -

1 - THEY ( DID ) ADVERTISE VEHICLES THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE IN STOCK, UNDER COST, AND UN PURCHASABLE

2 - THEY ( DO ) LIE TO THE CUSTOMER, TRICK THEM, SCAM THEM, DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO SCREW THEM

3 - THEY ( DO ) ADVERTISE UNDER COST NEW VEHICLES AS DEMOS- AND THEN SAY THEY ARE SOLD AND TRY TO SELL A NEW VEHICLE FOR CLOSE TO THAT PRICE

THERE ARE TOO MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THIS DEALERSHIP - IT DOES NOTTTTTT MAKE MONEY I HAVE MADE OVER 10 THOUSAND DOLLARS IN ONE MONTH AT MAZDA OF BRAMPTON AND AT ORANGEVILLE YOU WOULD BE LUCKY TO MAKE 3000 BEFORE TAXES - WHICH IN THE SALES BUSINESS IS FUCKING TERRIBLE -

PLEASE ASK ME ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THIS DEALERSHIP - I KNOW MOE AND KEN VERY WELL, KEN IS NOT AS MUCH SCUM AS MOE OR THE OWNER SUNNY BAINS - BUT HE HAS TO FOLLOW THERE LEAD AND RULES AS HE IS AN EMPLOYEE, I WOULD DISCURAGE ANYONE LOOKING TO BUY A NEW MAZDA OR ANY USED VEHICLE TO GO TO THAT DEALERSHIP -

AFTER SELLING 9 CARS AND PROFITING OVER 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS TOTAL GP I TOOK HOME A PAY CHECK OF JUST UNDER 800 DOLLARS AND HAD TO PAY FOR MY COMPANY VEHICLE TWICE THE VALUE OF THE TAXABLE BENEFIT

DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT GET CAUGHT IN THIS DEALERSHIP

ALSO !!!

SELLING A VEHICLE OVER THE LIST PRICE IS NOT A CRIME - THERE ARE LEGAL WAYS TO DO IT - WE DO NOT HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION REGARDING THIS EXACT CASE BUT TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA -

THE BANKS SHOULD NOT HAVE APPROVED HER IN THE FIRST PLACE REGUARDLESS OF CREDIT - THE BANKS HAVE SPECIFICATIONS AND VEHICLE PROFIT GUIDES THAT SHOW THE TRUE VALUE OF THE NEW VEHICLE AND WILL NOT APPROVE IF THE VEHICLE IS EXTRAVAGENTLY OVER PRICED -

I PERSONALLY HAVE SOLD NEW VEHICLES OVER 5000 DOLLARS OVER LIST PRICE - YES IT DOES NOT FEEL GOOD, BUT ITS A JOB, AND EVERYONE HAS A JOB. REPO MEN TAKE YOUR PROPERTY IF YOU CANT PAY, COPS GIVE YOU TICKETS IF YOU SPEED, AND SALESMEN CAN TAKE YOUR MONEY IF YOU GIVE IT TO THEM - IGNORANCE IS NO EXCUSE -

DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE MAKING ANY PURCHASES OVER 500 DOLLARS IS THE ONLY WAY TO BE SAFE -

---------- Post added at 10:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

Again guys ask me anything right in this thread you would like to know - this had been my career for 3 years and i know everything there is to know.

USED CAR ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, YOU CAN AND SHOULD BE ABLE TO SELL FOR WHAT EVER THE BUYER IS WILLING TO PAY -

---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------

Guys this shit happens all the time - When you sell a car and you make a little bit of money - even when you don’t - the customer will go home, double think, and regret, and either want their money back, want a better deal, or want free stuff - fuck you - i wouldn’t call you and tell you i want more money from you ? so don’t call me -

ITS TRUE

that’s shitty to hear a struggling dealership scamming a “intellectually disabled” woman for the extra buck. not that worse things don’t happen, that’s the business world.

Lol look what I found, Orangeville Mazda 2010 Demo car less KM for 22k
Gonna call good ol Moe right now to hook it up

http://www.autotrader.ca/used_cars_Car_details/ORANGEVILLE_Ontario_2010_MAZDA_6_1336249.html?srcID=5&frnID=7553208&cofid=ON20071022104537702&prv=Ontario&r=40