They might issue stats, but it’s always better to work from raw data. So long as they’re not publishing it, who cares? It’s publicly available information, just like how who owns a property and how much they paid for it (except that’s even easier to get).
Well, that’s just like, your opinion man.
Yea it’s weird Buffalo News coincidentally requested the same controversial information other news papers were posting everywhere the day before it was banned.
I guess banned isn’t the right word before the 120 period allowing people to opt out.
But im sure the Buffalo News had the BEST intentions based on timing and the actions of other news papers.
While you might not see why this is a big deal I have lots of friends who are law enforcement and corrections officers doing things like this put them and their families in danger. Outside of LEO/CO this also makes people targets for robberies and based on new restrictions those chances went up even more.
And remember its assault weapon owners we need to fear not hand gun owners.
It really being public information is what’s up for debate. Real estate records pose no real risk to the public. Knowing how much people paid for a house and what they pay in taxes really isn’t useful information for a criminal. Knowing what house you can go to if you’re looking for a gun however is really important information for a criminal, especially one with a record that makes obtaining a weapon much more difficult. That information directly puts innocent people at risk, people who have done nothing but follow the law to obtain their legal firearms. It’s sensitive information and shouldn’t be accessible to anyone other than the government agency responsible for it.
If the Buffalo News promised they were just going to use all your income tax records, which have your SSN and bank account information, just for compiling some data would you feel comfortable? Of course not, you don’t want to worry about every hack newspaper now being responsible to keeping this data secure, regardless of their plan to never release specific details. You’d be even more concerned if a paper just a few weeks earlier had used the exact same freedom of information request to get the data then proceeded to publish an interactive map on the site with all the details. In the case of releasing the pistol permit data it isn’t a case of, “well, some newspaper might do it”, they already have.
I’m hopeful we can publish every ones medical records it would be nice to know which kids in this area are on medicine for mental issues.
Perhaps we can get family history included? Might make it easier to find a pattern of alcoholism and I can avoid those drivers if they’re near a bar?
And Mike Connelly, the Buffalo News editor, weighs in on my buddies email thread with various people at the Buffalo News.
Mr. XXXXX, thanks for your note. Let me be clear: The News does not (and never did) intend to publish a database with the names and addresses of people with registered hand guns. Unfortunately, some public officials and media outlets have asserted otherwise – without ever contacting us. It simply isn’t true.
The News is seeking the data just as it has data on voter registration, municipal salaries, criminal records, property assessments, political contributions and tax rates. The gun registration data might be used internally, for example, in the process of reporting a story about a crime involving a gun.
Like a lot of public issues these days, the debate around guns is contentious. On any difficult issue, The News’ aim is always to report carefully and shed light, not add to the confusion.
Regards,
Mike Connelly
Editor, The Buffalo News
… anybody could have made the request. Why weren’t they concenered about someone making a FOIL request before? I know a bunch of people on the list too.
I agree that publishing the list would be wrong and potentially dangerous, but until they do (and I doubt they will) you’re worrying about something that’s not even likely to happen, and information that anyone could have requested previously under the existing FOIL.
Because historically news papers were not dumb enough to request a complete list and publish it.
Times have changed
Multiple news papers have been attempting to do this now.
Right, and they can make a FOIL request to get that information if they want. Even with the exemption there’s still going to be a ton of people that don’t bother to apply for it.
To me, this is where the protection of LEO/CO argument breaks down. You can go on and find the address of any propertry owner you want in the Erie county GIS system in a pretty short amount of time.
They’ve said they aren’t publishing it, so you’re all getting in a huff, over nothing at this point.
I didn’t say anything about LEO/CO. Chances are they wouldn’t be a criminal’s first choice anyway. I’m concerned about the average citizen pistol permit holder having their information made public because they are far more likely to be made a target by criminals.
Again, get it through your thick skull… this can’t be compared to real estate information. No criminals want to steal a house to commit crimes with it. No criminals are banned from purchasing property because of their criminal past.
And I really don’t care what the Buffalo News’ current agenda is for using this information. They shouldn’t be allowed access to it at all. If they get it today for their “crime stats” there is nothing stopping them from changing their policy later and publishing the information just like The Journal News did a few weeks ago.
And finally, I don’t believe their current excuse for on second. “We want to see if crimes were committed with registered guns”. Bullshit. In pretty much every gun crime reported the police say if the gun was legally registered or not.
Sorry, that was in response to LZ, and his comments on LEO/CO supposedly being in danger because their address would be available. I can understand the confusion there. So there’s really nothing for me to get through my thick skull in this case. I think the opt out clause is a great idea, and I don’t agree with the information being published.
Your real issue hear seems to be with the Freedom of Information Law as it’s enacted in the State. I can understand your ignorance on the issue, but I’m pretty sure part of the handgun application states something to the effect that information from it can be released. The same is true of anything you submit to the government, unless it’s granted some other protection under the law (PHI under HIPPA for example)
Maybe The Buffalo News can do another FOIL request in six months and do a story on the number of people that didn’t bother to opt out. That would be interesting.
It’s not ignorance on the issue.
Most news papers historically had the common sense not to publish things like this.
Wrong again.
http://www2.erie.gov/clerk/sites/www2.erie.gov.clerk/files/uploads/PISTOL%20PERMIT%20APP_%202012.pdf
There is nothing on the application about it being public information. And no person in their right mind would expect this to be public information. I submit my taxes to the government as required too, should I assume that a FOIL request could be submitted by the news to access and publish that information as well?
Personal financial information is completely different than permits, and is protected under other areas of the law. There’s not a lot I expect to be kept private by the government on anything I submit to them, but maybe I’m just slightly more well informed on some of this than most people in their right mind.
---------- Post added at 03:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 PM ----------
So you knew handgun permit information was available? Good for you! Though you must not be in your right mind? Sad thing, that.
lol what?
Someone already had their house broken into downstate because of the other news paper.
We will see what intentions the Buffalo News had at some point.
To all of you defending the buffalo news. GFY. Really. How would you feel if you were a corrections officer in a prison and your inmates taunted you with your home address? This has happened already. Make all of these god damn laws to “protect lives” and we cant even keep LEO’s families safe. The buffalo news needs to be shut down once and for all. I am so angry at this. ARRGGH.
So homes that arent listed as occupants living there having a pistol permit are suddenly safe for criminals to break in to?
Last I checked you could walk out of Gander Mountain with a 12 guage shot gun & a box of shells in an hour.
The level of ignorance in this thread is fucking mind blowing. Some people just argue for the sake of arguing.
The line at the pistol permit office was out the door today. Im not sure if people are panicking trying to get their apps in or what. All the lawyers in the hallways were discussing how messed up this is and how they are not buying 7 round mags…
Cross post reference. The logic is pretty simple.
You said “It’s not ignorance on the issue.”
JayS said “no person in their right mind would expect this to be public information.”
∴ You must not be in you’re right mind.
It was an attempt at levity.
If the news wants to investigate a gun related crime as it might pertain to the legal status of the gun owner, just do it on an incident by incident basis, not just downloading the entire list. I’m sure there’s no chance a list like that could be compromised from a security standpoint once the BN has it, right? Oh and just to be clear before I’m lit on fire, I don’t think this (or most of the information available out there) should be made available to the BN or anyone else.
As far as people knowing I have guns and not being home when my family is, my wife knows where they are, has a generally miserable attitude, and is a better shot than many long time gun owners I know.