Since redtops/blacktops seem to be really popular, I’m going to gear my questions towards those…
How much hp can the stock bottom-end handle reliably?
How much hp can the fuel system handle safely before maxing out… rails/injectors (85% duty cycle)?
What will it take to make 400hp+? Do I have to forge?
Will a stock longblock setup (with supporting mods/fuel/etc) be able to handle a GT3071r and push around 400hp?
Are piggyback fuel/timing systems okay to use with your ecu’s to make 300hp+?
How volatile are these engines to overheating. I know that’s an issue with these motors.
What exhaust manifold do you recommend that is T3 flanged?
History:
I’m an MR2 owner and I come from an extensive 3SGTE background. I would like to know more about your cars and the SR20DET engine as it seems to be a very potent powerplant.
Much appreciation,
-hmong337
ps. Threads without pictures suck so I’ll leave you guys with a picture of my car…
How much hp can the stock bottom-end handle reliably? By reliably, do you mean when you’re constantly tracking the car? I’d say if you plan on tracking it, it should be able to handle 320 - 350whp if the engine is maintained and tune properly
How much hp can the fuel system handle safely before maxing out… rails/injectors (85% duty cycle)? Stock injectors are 370cc… so you can figure that out. When it’s cold out, you can technically max out your injectors at 11 or 12 psi on the stock t25 turbo.
What will it take to make 400hp+? Do I have to forge? For 400hp, gt2871r .86 seems to be the ideal choice for most people. 740cc injectors, Z32 Maf, and good engine management. (AEM EMS or Apexi Power FC)
Will a stock longblock setup (with supporting mods/fuel/etc) be able to handle a GT3071r and push around 400hp? It should if it’s tuned properly.
Are piggyback fuel/timing systems okay to use with your ecu’s to make 300hp+? Yes, but it probably wouldn’t be reliable if you plan on tracking your car. For a daily driver and someone who just drives to a tim hortons and back, it should be fine…not recommended unless you’re using a piggypack system along with an already tuned ECU.
How volatile are these engines to overheating. I know that’s an issue with these motors. A koyo radiator is definitely recommended if you like to drive your car hard. A stock rad with a fmic usually results in overheating. But that is mainly because people don’t even bother to properly bleed their engines.
What exhaust manifold do you recommend that is T3 flanged? For T3 flanged manifolds…it’d have to be topmount and I think you can get one from Full Race, Synapse, or Peak Boost. http://phase2motorsports.stores.yahoo.net/exmawa1.html
How about the stock fuel rails? Will they be able to flow 720cc injectors without choking? I know that gen2 3sgte fuel rails choke at around 300hp on stock injectors. However, you shouldn’t be pushing that much anyways on a stock mr2 fuel system as it’s not safe.
In terms of the gt2871r .86, wouldn’t you have to run super high boost to get 400hp?
At what hp threshold does it start to get expensive to mod the SR20DET? An example of what I’m talking about is (using the 3SGTE as an example):
With the 3SGTE, anything above 300hp it really starts to get expensive. Meaning you’re going to have to upgrade practically everything- fuel, stand alone EMS, turbo, BPU, etc. ~$8000
Under 300hp with the 3SGTE, you’ll spend around $1500
So my question again is, at what hp range does it start to get expensive when modding the SR20DET.
The reason why I asked about piggyback fuel/timing controllers with the SR earlier, is that on the 3SGTE, it’s either you stay stock ECU with a romtune, or you go stand alone EMS. There’s no “in-between” with that motor in terms of fuel/timing controllers…
300hp u can do well under 5g’s. My set up right now should put me in the high 300’s hopefully 400 if i dream hard. And thats with the correct supporting mods.
FOB, what manifold do you recommend for T2? like the GT2871r? Also I know that people mod their gt28 to external sometimes…is there a big advantage? Worth it?
If you want to push past 300hp on an SR, I would probablly entertain the idea of a real EMS (PowerFC, AEM EMS, Haltec, romtune, etc.) insetad of using an SAFC. You need to consider timing and not just fuel.
As well, 740cc or higher injectors. 550cc is pushing it.
AEM is getting cheap again so keep an eye out for a deal on an EMS. I’ve always been :ugh: about SAFC
To get to 4bills on that atuff you are going to have to run 20-21psi. Therefore, you’re also going to need to upgrade you HG and studs and at least a mild cam upgrade is a must.
With all that said, if you’re goal really is 400rwhp I would ditch the T2 turbo. They are too small and too restrictive and have to be pushed far to hard.
Thanks happy240sx for taking the time to post very useful information. I’m really impressed with the GT30R numbers!!! Those look fantastic.
As well, I’m aware that t2 frame turbos can only push so much. My previous question was simply about seeing if it was possible to hit 400hp with only little mods. And I’d never want to run that amount of boost on a small turbo. Just way too much stress on the engine. Besides, a larger turbo at lower boost making the same power is always the way to go.
Question: at what range should one start thinking about digging into the bottom end to start forging things? It is obvious that highly skilled tuners can make 500hp on a stock bottom end with supporting mods. Yes, it’s all about the tune. However, I’m talking about preliminary precautions as added insurance that you won’t detonate for an everyday streetable/trackable setup.
As far as the 3SGTE, stock bottom ends on those motors are reliable up to around 350hp. If you wanted anything past 400hp reliably with the 3SGTE, you will have to forge. Yet, there’s also been cases of 500hp stock bottom ends that held up. In one case, a 500hp+ 200k mile stock motor! Although I’m sure they were dyno queen numbers only and probably detonated thereafter.
when i was at dl motorsport mike had a 200sx with a red top. injector size… i cant remeber but the turbo was off a diesel. running maga squirt. at 23 psi it was making 323rwhp and they were still tuning. oh and bone stock internals
There is no set number. There are too many variables. Some guys make 500whp on the stock block and baby it while other beat the piss out of it and it pops.
If you want a ballpark 300-350. To be safe you should build the bottom end for anything more.
If you are worried about reliability then stick with a proven setup. If it makes the power you want great if not dont worry and just enjoy the car.
you gotta remember aswell… you can build the shit out of an engine(i.e. turbo, injectors) but you can also free up ponys here and there like a light weight DS, Greddy pullys, Light weight flywheel, bigger wheel base. all depends on budget…
i havent heard to much on guys building the bottom end honestly. and IRC i dont think there is all that much you can do the Bottomend…
for 300+ HP id highly recommend a KOYO with a nice fan setup and reliable(rated for 400-500HP) FMIC… Overheating is an issue and you should be smart about it.
SASHA(SG) mentioned Ducting the airflow a while back but i cant remember how or what is needed to do this properly.
