Lol, I dont think anyone even read this thread. The guys like late 20’s I believe, and yes he is the most dedicated moderator on that board. It sounded goofy how he phrased it but how else do you present yourself when you are trying to get that point across.
IWSTI Grand Wizard Czar?
Like any consumer, if a product goes bad he will be upset and want to be compensated. He was offered reasonable compensation within their warranty terms, but that wasn’t good enough. He has a right to be upset but he took it way too far and let his Internet forum stardom get to him.
But who are you to say that compensation was reasonable?
If these were faulty turbos, why would it be unreasonable to say that he should not recieve full compensation> (turbos + labor ect)
You never receive labor for failed parts from any company when a 3rd party installs them…
FP has always taken care of our customers. I just got a turbo back that a customer sent them for inspection after his engine failed (backyard mechanic built engine didn’t last through engine break in with no boost LOL). They checked the turbo over at no charge even though the customer expected to pay for it. They didn’t even charge him return shipping. While I certainly wouldn’t expect that, these guys have surprised me before, and it’s always in a good way.
Robert was over harsh at the Subaru community in general, but I’d rather someone tell it like it is than be full of it.
I guess im saying in a perfect world or even more specific, if it had gone to court!
The fact that the first turbo lasted more than a year until dying a sudden death leads me to believe its not a faulty turbo as much as death by ingestion, which is along the same lines of FP was saying. A faulty turbo would die in most cases ( there are always exceptions ) like the 2nd one did, especially if it was thrust bearing related.
Regardless if the 2nd turbo was faulty or if it is tied to some underlying Subie is irrelevant: FP was replacing it for free.
So once again, best case Majin had a legitimate claim to teh Green which he was getting replaced for free but then told Robert at FP to shove it and wanted more. I find it very hard, even as a user/potential customer/put me in his shoes type of guy to find any sustainable grounds for Majin’s claim on getting a free replacement/reimbursement for the 20g.
I am not saying Robert’s comments to the Subie community weren’t a bit on the dickish side, but then look at the shit storm he knew he was stepping into and the only way to avoid it would have been give him a check for $2600. Where would that leave him? Sure Majin talks him up but then the next guy with a 20g says “wait a sec, mine blew too after 15 months because it ate a bolt. I want it refunded. You did it Majin”. It’s a no win situation since it was obvious he was going to post whore the results one way or the other on his board as “elite moderator”.
Even if it went to court. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the labor didn’t fuck shit up. You can’t, especially when not only had it installed by a 3rd party but bought the turbo’s from a 4th party. Prove they didn’t sell a crap turbo to him without FP’s knowledge. Too many scenarios.
But in the end, throw a post online about how a Vendor fucked you over and it’s just as good as court, especially when you get a ton of e-jocks throwing their e-cocks around like they known anything about the situation or running a business catering to clients such as we car morons. 
I believe FP is to say what their warranty policy is.
And when buying a product it’s your own fault if you didn’t consider the possibility of events that could lead to the need for that warranty policy to come into action.
So if you don’t like a company’s warranty policy to the point where it wouldn’t satisfy you if the need for it arose, and your the kind of person that needs that peace of mind, then don’t buy the product.
I’m not siding with either side, your always going to hear one side of the argument at a time, and the person giving that side is always right in their own mind.
reasonable and unreasonable are meaningless words in this case.
The compensation was determined well before this actual situation ever arose.
It’s in writing.
It is.
That’s it.
no reasonable, no unreasonable, no right, no wrong, just what is.
he chose to buy the product with the warranty policy known to the public, and the company stood by that policy.
The douche fag probably financed it on a 23% APR credit card, or took out personal/student loans to pay for it. A financially “stable” person, wouldn’t feel the need to threaten someone for towing, and labor fees. They’d take the free turbo and shut the fuck up.
hit the nail on the head right there, great response
The statement “the customer is always right” was taken to extreme by white trash stores like walmart and has forever ruined the customer/merchant relationship in this country. Walmart taught an army of ignorant trashy people that if they whine and cry loud enough a company will cave in and give them what they want, even if the customer is wrong. Now these trashy people expect the same treatment for any merchant.
:tup: to FP for telling those people to fuck off. If only more companies would grow a pair and do the same thing.
date Nov 20, 2007 4:37 PM
subject Re: 2 Blown FP Turbos
Robert,
Thank you for the reply, and while I apologize for not replying to you sooner, I appreciate the effort you are making on my behalf. I do,
however, still have a few lingering questions that I hope you can provide answers for.
I would like more pictures of the failure areas on both of the turbos with their respective explanations as to how the observable damage was caused and what indicated this to you. I would appreciate that very much, and so would the members of the site. Thank you in advance.
You are not the only person to see the FP20Gs fail on the exhaust side. It seems that other members of IWSTI have posted a few threads in which their FP20Gs also failed on the exhaust side. It appears that there may be something else wrong other than the possibility of particulate matter, perhaps with the turbos themselves being that it is not likely to have all these cars firing particulates big enough to break exhaust turbine fins off the turbos, yet have no damage anywhere else on their cars. To make things more confusing to me, you were unable to find any particulates in the housing of the 20G, other than the broken turbine fin, and there was nothing else in the catalytic converter in my car - as XX has removed it and other components of my car to inspect it for damage after the 20G failed.
Also, you were correct, I still have the OE exhaust manifold on the car, along with new gaskets every time I had to pay for the
installation of an FP turbo. I can assure you that no expense was spared when it came to providing the best for my car, since it is my
daily driver car and of course, because I like the car. I had the car for about 2 years and 19,000+ miles before it was modified in any way, at which point it was always with the OE turbo. Only around the 30,000+ mile marker did I decide to add power to the car beyond the OE turbo, at which point I had the FP 20G installed. That turbo lasted less than a year. The Green turbo lasted less than 2 months. Today, the car has less than 44,000 miles. The two FP turbos combined lasted less that 14,000 miles. I can’t see how that is possible when the OE turbo tuned past factory power levels has lasted over 122,000 documented miles for one member on IWSTI and these turbos were not tuned past their specifications. Perhaps you can tell me where else should I look for extraneous matter of the size required to cause the damage you describe? I’m sure my tuner would also like to know for the sake of their future customers.
I am extremely fortunate that your turbos didn’t destroy other parts or even the rest of my car (although I did pay for the tests to be
sure), because I can see that your warranty would really do me no good in that event. Your warranty would apparently leave me with a new FP turbo and a $33,000+ car that couldn’t bring me to work.
The speculative cause for failure of the Green didn’t sit well with me being that the factory VF39 is not, in fact, a ball bearing turbo, but
as per Subaru and IHI literature, is a thrust bearing turbo. If my Amsoil 10W-30 motor oil was (and is today) able to provide the OE IHI
turbo with sufficient pressure to float the thrust bearing, and the same held for the 20G’s bearing, why now can it not provide the Green
with enough pressure? The car consistently sees a minimum of 20 - 22 PSI pressure when the oil temps are at their max, and under load the oil pressure is at a minimum of 70 - 71 PSI. If your Green turbo requires a different grade of oil and/or different pressure than the
factory thrust bearing turbo, why wasn’t this noted on the FP site or literature at any time prior to his email? I would be saddened to
think that my car was an unwilling and expensive R&D subject.
Again, thank you for the time you have put in and the care you have shown in answering my emails. As a loyal customer who bought two
turbos from you I expected no less. If you could provide me with these answers I would greatly appreciate it; not to mention all the
hundreds of potential customers on IWSTI.com who will be made aware of my problems. The faster we can speed this to a satisfactory
conclusion, the happier we will all be in the end.
Regards,
Jason
date Nov 20, 2007 6:08 PM
subject Re: 2 Blown FP Turbos
I am unable to continue exchanging emails regarding turbo failure modes, I have explained what I see in these 2 turbos. I appreciate your curiosity and interest in this subject. It is not fruitful to entertain hypothetical possibilities regarding the failure of these two turbos any further. I know it seems cliche, but I have perhaps the most experience of anyone in the country when it comes to Mitsu based hybrid turbos and what it takes to make them live and what results in their failure and the opinions of untrained forum readers is not particularly relevant to the truth of this matter. I am correct regarding the failure of your 2 turbos, it is not something that is debatable. The 2-3 fold increase in oil flow required by the monster thrust bearing of the Green and red models makes them susceptible to oil starvation, omitting the stock oil line and using our recommended feed line is all that is required as far as additional parts to provide proper lubrication so long as there is nothing unusual with the balance of the oil system of the car. You did this, which is why we can cover the turbo under our warranty. Additionally, intercooled engines are not harmed during the failure of a turbocharger, even in the severe case where the compressors explode. None of these pieces can pass thru the intercooler, and in the case of a broken turbine wheel, all pieces continue to travel downstream in the exhaust. So your concerns over engine damage are unwarranted. I am not optimistic that you will avoid hammering FP on the internet about your blown up turbos, you have hinted to such in ever correspondence to date. Despite that, please make a reasonable request for compensation and I shall consider it due to your bad experiences even though our warranty does not allow for such compensation. I regret that you have had such a poor experience with our product and wish to make it up to you.
If you wish to discuss this further, feel free to call me. 972--* ext ***
Best Regards
Robert Young
Its these two exchanges which tell me FP knows they f*ucked up. The bold is what makes me think, (again im just merely playing devils advocate here) that that if FP saw what would be reasonable compensation assuming they did sell these “faulty turbos,” that $2600 is a lot to dish out and not a price they wanted to pay.
In response FP came up with that next email, which in my head is just them hitting the eject button on this confrontation. Whats worse is as Majin threatens further, FP gives in a little (which again to me is a sign of them admitting guilt).
Im no tech guy, but the bolded above does not seem to sit quite right in my head and with FP now being in possesion of the turbo and the holders of the ultimate tech knowledge, I can just find it easy for them to fabricate any “reasonable” excuse to the end user as to “why its not their fault.”
If someone on these boards (probably inntune or carnut) can verify that these tine metal splinters actually do splinter off and cause the damage correlated to those pictures than ill just shut up. But this tells me its more than that. (either majin trying to scam here or FP screwing up in manufacturing)
Again im not saying Majin is right. Im just saying I think some here people are not being deductive enough.
I’ve seen three dead FP turbos now. Yours which ate a hose clamp, a Green that ate a chunk of a piston, and a guy that dropped a 16G off today with crazy shaft play and a beat up exhaust wheel.
He had me tune his car on an SR56 today. He’s a mechanic and does all his own work. I got a couple minutes into the tune and felt something was wrong so I went under the hood and sure enough a vacuum line was off. I guarantee that leak killed the FP 16g that was on there before. It was pushing 22 psi with a big leak so it was spinning to the moon. He has an Autronic standalone (MAP based) so the car ran fine with the leak and he didn’t notice.
This Majin guy may say 20G exhaust wheels are dying on Subarus, but we’ve put a lot these on and never seen it happen without a big foreign object destroying it, as it would any turbo. I get the feeling something is up with the guy’s car. I don’t have time to read through their whole mess, but if there’s a vacuum leak and the turbo overspins to try to pressurize the manifold despite the leak, it will exceed recommended shaft speed and eventually start contacting the housing which will bang up the wheel. It may be that simple or it may not.
The guy may have a collapsed AVCS or turbo oil feed filter. We’ve seen that happen on tons of the 2.5L turbo engines and that would certainly cause this. I wonder if he’s checked his…
Majin claims and documents with pictures in the thread as taken by the shop who installed the turbo, that the filter was clear of upon removal. Obviously this could be staged based upon his relationship with the shop, but idk about that one…:gotme:
Again, im just baffled how minescule debris could just annihilate a wheel like that. I mean, the hoseclamp in my turbo must have knocked the wheel a gaggle of times at a few different psi ranges and the wheel stayed in tact. But then again there could have been something else… like some foul play.
Even if they knew they did something wrong on the Green it doesn’t matter because they offered to fix it/replace it free of charge.
This guy Majin is the embodyment of whiny crybaby internet tough guys…
Lol or just a customer who wants justice?
Im sick of these general closed minded statements lol.
Again, we have no idea whose fault it is, so who are we to say what he is.
Have you ever needed to argue a refund or reparation on any item you have bought (computer, car part, coffee, anything?) Sometimes the vendor/seller does not want to give it back to you or will argue its defect. If you dont stand up you have no chance of ever getting it back. This just so happens to be in the matter of thousands of dollars.
Take all the FP20g’s that have failed. Subtract all that are obviously user/debri/death by exterior means. Take that remainder and divide it by total number of FP20g’s sold. What’s the percentage of unexplainable failures? How many of those lasted over a year of punishment?
Saying “I have heard of quite a few failures” is anecdotal at best. Unless you know the situations for each of those failures and can categorize, there is no way to say “There’s something wrong with all FP20g’s”.
Regardless, Majin wanted A. Got A then asked for A+B. Got A again but with some extras to make up for B. Then asked for C after that. Majin spams board blasting because he didn’t get C.
Fuck em.
This kid is a fucking cry baby…
he got two turbos…both failed…something is fucked up in his setup…lots of other people have had great success with their products…
enough. Go suck off super duper elite moderators on their own boards. anyone looking for info or feedback on FP will be able to find this - no reason to listen to you babble on for pages on end.