Gladman finally paints his KA-T! *Pics*

SON240sx Automotive
81

Are you honestly taking a stab at me for being rich? Where in the hell did you come up with that? I work my ass off for my money and not a penny of anyone’s money other than my own has been put in to my car. You’re hilarious. Everything on my car is there because it was cheap. I’m a POOR bastard just like most everyone else here. I drive a 240 for slut’s sake. Because I’m an idiot and have spent more on my car maybe than you have doesn’t make me rich - it means I’m an idiot spending money in the wrong places.

I dont know about the 12/10’s yet - havent been able to drive on them as the car is still in the shop but i know a guy whos been running them for a little more than a year (yes, through the winter) and had no problems. I’ve spent my share of time in his car and it’s not rough at all - it’s common knowledge that the valving on the megan tracks is setup much nicer than on the megan streets and because of this they’re less bouncy and if anything, equally as comfortable as the streets.

Also, why are you taking personal stabs at me? Because I’m challenging your physics knowledge? If this is the case, you’re wrong - because I know nothing about physics. What I do know though, is that you’re very very wrong and I’ll tell you why…

So let me get this straight… In your eyes when the offset of a wheel is changed by the manufacturer do think that they make the thickness of the wheel hub thicker? (like adding a spacer?)

So, if that’s your super technical know-how then tell me Solarian, why do you not need to install extended studs when you buy a low offset wheel?

Any manufacturer of decent quality wheels will not change the thickness of the hub of their wheels to change the offset (which would make your idiotic theory true… the same as adding a spacer).

Ever noticed how the spoke design of a 10" fn01r looks different than a 9" fn01r? That’s to compensate for the offset changes of a wider wheel without adding a “spacer” because adding spacer puts unwanted leverage on the wheel bearings.

The spoke design of the fn01r makes these changes obvious because of how they look, but this is how it’s always done, by changing the design or angle or “sweep” of the spokes. If not, they add what is called dish. Maybe you haven’t learned about this one yet but some wheels have what we call dish - it is the only other method that wheel manufacturers use to compensate for offsets.

Antonio, Scott and Phil - please all take one of your feet and put it in your mouth.

Also, Solarian why are you so aggressive all of a sudden? Trying to take the place of BAS the resident E-Thug?

Something else I should note is that everything I mentioned in this post is assuming that we aren’t talking about ghetto rim manufacturers who engineer nothing other than a rim design and don’t care about the effects their design might have on your car. Any REAL wheel manufacturer follows what I’ve said.

82

And you finally came to my point in the end. You were talking about stud length all along, and I told you, and a_ahmed, that THAT is the only change, and it is IRRELEVANT to the loads on your wheel.
Say it with me… STUD LENGTH DOESN’T AFFECT WHEEL LOADING.
The stab had nothing to do with you being or not being rich, it had to do with just putting the most expensive thing on your car without thinking about it. Either way, I don’t care what you do with your car, I’m sure you’ll enjoy just stepping on the gas rather than actually driving it, as all people who just built a high hp car before actually learning to drive it at stock power.

It doesn’t matter, I don’t care about SON anymore, I think I’ll go join NEO or something, less people shit talking without knowing anything about what they’re saying.

83

You still don’t know what your saying - nothing i said had anything to do with studs. The only time I mentioned studs when when I was correcting YOUR incorrect understanding of how manufacturers change the offset of wheels.

Stud length does not affect wheel loading, that is correct… and irrelevant.

What do you know about how I can drive my car or how long I drove it with stock power? How do you know anything about my experiences with cars in the past?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I’m a good driver - I’m just sincerely curious how you could judge my driving.

And what on my car is expensive? Why do you keep talking about my car being expensive? My car is a pile of rusty crap.

84

Hmmm…

As much as I’m not a fan of Solarians extremely opinionated voice lately, he is right.

The addition of a spacer is exactly like subtracting offset.

The difference between a set of wheels with the proper offset, assuming the same width, and a spaced set are where the loads are generated on the studs.

Spaced out studs have force applied at their ends rather then non spaced with forces being applied more towardsthe center. Shear loads applied to the end of a stud have a higher “moment” because your fulcrum is the same but you have a longer lever. The same applies for longer studs.

If you buy upgraded wheels studs to handle the increase torque then in reality your as safe as the guy running without spacers on stock studs.

Now stop arguing…

Solarian, not everyone here is going through engineering… I am… but makeyour arguments clear with less eng. jargon, and everyone learns and understand alot easier.

-Bob

85

Bob,
You left out the point about the wheel bearing. If there’s a longer level because of the spacers, there is more forces applied to the bearing.

Also, if the case of the spacers being the same as wheel offset is true - why don’t you need longer studs on a low-offset wheel?

86

a lower offset wheel simply has the mounting pad further streetside on the wheel.

longer studs are required for increasing thread engaugement. when you add spacers you are making the hub thicker and moving the mounting surface back, this takes away available threads on the stud.

a lower offset wheel does not need longer studs because although the mounting pad is further street side, the over all thickness of the hub is still such that you can use the stock studs.

87

who cares, your all posers

maybe not theo.

88

no, theo is a poser too

my wheels are the flushiest

89

Will do on the less technical jargon, but I personally had not noticed that I’ve become more opinionated lately. Other than this thread, I don’t recall any other instances.

90

I’d go through and point them all out, but I don’t have the time :slight_smile:

Just simmer, no use in getting worked up over it, because regardless of how much you know, someone is bound to disagree…

No worries…

91

Exactly, therefore adding a spacer and decreasing the offset are two different things… contrary to Bob, Antonio, Theo and Scott’s theory.

92

I don’t get how they can’t understand the fact that you are ADDING something in between there.

It’s one thing that you get the ‘same offset’ – obviously – however you are physically ADDING something else in between the wheel and hub in there (eg; the spacer)

93

You dont need longer studs on a low offset wheel because the wheel face sits flush to the hub, whereas the spacer sits flush to the hub and therfore the wheel face sits flush to the spacer.

The positioning of the wheel relative to the body of the car are the same comparing a low offset wheel to a high offset wheel with a spacer, the mounting face of the wheel relative to the hub face changes when comparing the two however…

The bearing taking a larger force is correct, but it has nothing to do with the studs, because the spacers attached to the wheels are hubcentric. the up and down force is absorbed by the ring in the center in theory.

The extra force exerted on the bearing could be calculated through extending the lever the length of the spacer, but for whatever reason i think there is more to this then simple physics could explain. In any case, the problem with spacers lies more in the studs from torquing force, then in the bearing from vertical movement.

Comparing the length of the stud to how much you’re spacing gives a good indication of how much the leverage has changed.

A 3 inch stud with a normally seating wheel is using 1 inch of a 3 inch stud. Add a 30mm spacer, and you’ve increased the leverage by double.

Now looking at that from the bearing perspective:

You have 5inchs from bearing to tip of stud. So 3 inches for a normally mounted wheel, add a 30mill spacer, and you have increased leverage by 33%.

Leverage is relative to parts because everything is not created and measured equally…

In essence, be more worried about your studs then your bearings, and always try to find a wheel with a correct offset.

94

Exactly, therefore adding a spacer and decreasing the offset are two different things… contrary to Bob, Antonio, Theo and Scott’s theory.[/quote]

No, actually it’s about the same as what we’re saying. I think you’re still getting mixed up…

95

Thank you for agreeing with exactly what I said and disagreeing with Solarian:

And Scott:

And Phil:

So much for same length of level, huh?: (untrue according to Bob)

96

This entire time I was arguing that adding a spacer is different than having a lower offset wheel. See my above post for proof that Solarian was disagreeing with me

He thinks that the lever is the same length (bolded above). You very clearly said that is not the case.

I thought I did as well a page ago or so in this thread that that just lead to Solarian attacking my bank account and my driving skills… both of which are zero and I never claimed otherwise so I’m not sure why :smiley:

97

lol jammy, the only way we can prove this is by meeting up, and showing people face to face that it is NOT the exact same thing, you ADD something in between the wheel, it is an addition :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t know why it is so hard to comprehend shrug

I completely understood everything you said…and lol @ bank attack

98

haha… yeah yeah…

unfortunately I think this thing is coming to an end… Bob came in here all calm and shit and the heat cooled down really quick. Damn you Bob for being calm… we were having a healthy heated debate.

I hope Sol you aren’t too angry even though you were the only one with a knife.

99

“NO ITS F’EN SAME ASSHOLE”

pulls out knife

“F YOU LIL B**H ITS NOT”

pulls out wrench

haha it was fun 8)

100

Meh, I was always saying that the difference is simply the stud length and that the leverage is related to the distance between the edge of the wheel and that the loading on your suspension and vehicle is only related to that. The forces on the studs themselves, are different, and if you go back, I said that too. Either way, the only reason I got mad is that I felt that neither of you were listening and just kept on repeating what you were saying before. And my spacers arrived today, and I need to buy a plastic ring… Apparently the guy that sold them to me didn’t understand wheel centric, and gave me some with a lip way too small to center my wheel. Ah well, atleast they’re hub centric.

Edit: Go to the world cup forum, I’m about to make up for being an angry ass.
Edit 2: Nvm, Nutta already posted the hot asian girls playing soccer.